Respect Your Elders (To an extent?)
- Thread starter Zero Phoenix
- Start date
[quote name='ZERO PHOENIX']So basically you're faking it. You do realize that pretending to respect someone isn't equal to actually respecting them?[/QUOTE]
Nope, Im not faking my respect. The fact remains that they are further ahead in life then I am. They earn more, they know more, they have experienced more, etc. That gives them my respect. At least, I will respect those achievements, even though I might loath the person and think nothing of some of his other aspects.
You think youre the only one who monitors his behavior? You think most other people just do whatever comes up in their heads and go with it, no matter how that makes them look in the eyes of certain other people? Thats just...I dunno. Let me assure you that only a few people do not actually monitor their behavior. You sound like you think youre mr perfect who never wrongs anyone. How do you know that? Does everyone who lays eyes on you thank you for being such a perfect human being and that your mere presence makes them happy? No? Then you dont know shit about if you do right by anyone.
Id still respect that employer, for the simple reason that he found a way to make more money then the rest, getting the resources he wants, and taking advantage of his employees who, despite being taken advantage of, still do what he says. I respect that he has power where others have non. I therefor respect him, even though I might think hes otherwise an asshole.
So what? A professor is still a guy with a degree, and that is something that I as a student, am still lacking. Therefor, he has achieved more in life then I have, thus he got my respect. On top of that, he is probably older, thus he also experienced more then I have, which also entitles him to some of my respect. And on top of that, hes also the guy who is gonna decide if you fail or pass his course, which means he has more power then me, and that also entitles him to my respect. The level of respect he has for me is completely irrelevant.
Besides, its not a professors job to respect his students. What have they done to earn his respect anyways? Sit still and listen? Do what they are told? Write a paper? Still, I doubt that he had any student whos academic achievements surpasses his own at that point. No, students havent done anything for which he should respect.
Who said anything about that I believe that people give me as much respect as I give them? I know that I probably get less respect from most older people, and rightfully so in most cases. Im young, and I have yet to prove myself worthy of any respect.
Anyways, my argument is not about the way you behave. My argument was about what you achieved. The fact that you act all nice towards your boss says nothing about what you achieved at work. Your achievements determine my respect for you and that was what I meant to say when I said that maybe you have done nothing to deserve peoples respect. I said that maybe you havent achieved anything worth peoples respect. And thats why elder people do deserve my respect, because regardless of their behavior towards me, they achieved more in life then me.
Nope, Im not faking my respect. The fact remains that they are further ahead in life then I am. They earn more, they know more, they have experienced more, etc. That gives them my respect. At least, I will respect those achievements, even though I might loath the person and think nothing of some of his other aspects.
You think youre the only one who monitors his behavior? You think most other people just do whatever comes up in their heads and go with it, no matter how that makes them look in the eyes of certain other people? Thats just...I dunno. Let me assure you that only a few people do not actually monitor their behavior. You sound like you think youre mr perfect who never wrongs anyone. How do you know that? Does everyone who lays eyes on you thank you for being such a perfect human being and that your mere presence makes them happy? No? Then you dont know shit about if you do right by anyone.
Id still respect that employer, for the simple reason that he found a way to make more money then the rest, getting the resources he wants, and taking advantage of his employees who, despite being taken advantage of, still do what he says. I respect that he has power where others have non. I therefor respect him, even though I might think hes otherwise an asshole.
So what? A professor is still a guy with a degree, and that is something that I as a student, am still lacking. Therefor, he has achieved more in life then I have, thus he got my respect. On top of that, he is probably older, thus he also experienced more then I have, which also entitles him to some of my respect. And on top of that, hes also the guy who is gonna decide if you fail or pass his course, which means he has more power then me, and that also entitles him to my respect. The level of respect he has for me is completely irrelevant.
Besides, its not a professors job to respect his students. What have they done to earn his respect anyways? Sit still and listen? Do what they are told? Write a paper? Still, I doubt that he had any student whos academic achievements surpasses his own at that point. No, students havent done anything for which he should respect.
Who said anything about that I believe that people give me as much respect as I give them? I know that I probably get less respect from most older people, and rightfully so in most cases. Im young, and I have yet to prove myself worthy of any respect.
Anyways, my argument is not about the way you behave. My argument was about what you achieved. The fact that you act all nice towards your boss says nothing about what you achieved at work. Your achievements determine my respect for you and that was what I meant to say when I said that maybe you have done nothing to deserve peoples respect. I said that maybe you havent achieved anything worth peoples respect. And thats why elder people do deserve my respect, because regardless of their behavior towards me, they achieved more in life then me.
[quote name=''[lexus'];66902'] Still, I doubt that he had any student whos academic achievements surpasses his own at that point. No, students havent done anything for which he should respect. [/QUOTE]
I don't know about you but our sensei charges monthly fees from us, yet he doesn't attend our classes regularly, late for class and most of the time he just throws out a 100000s of stupid papers on us and he just slacks off and starts playing with his phone.
But hey, don't take my word for it, he still has a degree.
I don't know about you but our sensei charges monthly fees from us, yet he doesn't attend our classes regularly, late for class and most of the time he just throws out a 100000s of stupid papers on us and he just slacks off and starts playing with his phone.
But hey, don't take my word for it, he still has a degree.
[quote name=''[lexus'];66902']Nope, Im not faking my respect. The fact remains that they are further ahead in life then I am. They earn more, they know more, they have experienced more, etc. That gives them my respect. At least, I will respect those achievements, even though I might loath the person and think nothing of some of his other aspects.[/QUOTE]
Got it. You're faking it.
[quote name=''[lexus'];66902']You sound like you think youre mr perfect who never wrongs anyone.[/QUOTE]
What can I say?
[quote name=''[lexus'];66902'] How do you know that? Does everyone who lays eyes on you thank you for being such a perfect human being and that your mere presence makes them happy? No? Then you dont know shit about if you do right by anyone.[/QUOTE]
My, aren't we getting touchy.
[quote name=''[lexus'];66902']Id still respect that employer, for the simple reason that he found a way to make more money then the rest, getting the resources he wants, and taking advantage of his employees who, despite being taken advantage of, still do what he says. I respect that he has power where others have non. I therefor respect him, even though I might think hes otherwise an asshole.[/QUOTE]
Got it, so you're prideless. You would respect a man who does harm to others just so he could make a buck. I think I understand what "kind" of person you are.
[quote name=''[lexus'];66902']So what? A professor is still a guy with a degree, and that is something that I as a student, am still lacking. Therefor, he has achieved more in life then I have, thus he got my respect. On top of that, he is probably older, thus he also experienced more then I have, which also entitles him to some of my respect. And on top of that, hes also the guy who is gonna decide if you fail or pass his course, which means he has more power then me, and that also entitles him to my respect. The level of respect he has for me is completely irrelevant.[/QUOTE]
You missed the point. Not that I'm surprised. A person's position does not entitle them to respect. Respect must be earned. If a person regardless of age or job fails to do their part to inspire others to respect them (treating them with respect) then he is not to be respected. Do I have to explain that to you as well?
[quote name=''[lexus'];66902']Who said anything about that I believe that people give me as much respect as I give them? I know that I probably get less respect from most older people, and rightfully so in most cases. Im young, and I have yet to prove myself worthy of any respect.[/QUOTE]
You've done a spectacular job so far.
[quote name=''[lexus'];66902']Anyways, my argument is not about the way you behave. My argument was about what you achieved. The fact that you act all nice towards your boss says nothing about what you achieved at work. Your achievements determine my respect for you and that was what I meant to say when I said that maybe you have done nothing to deserve peoples respect. I said that maybe you havent achieved anything worth peoples respect. And thats why elder people do deserve my respect, because regardless of their behavior towards me, they achieved more in life then me.[/QUOTE]
How admirable.
Got it. You're faking it.
[quote name=''[lexus'];66902']You sound like you think youre mr perfect who never wrongs anyone.[/QUOTE]
What can I say?
[quote name=''[lexus'];66902'] How do you know that? Does everyone who lays eyes on you thank you for being such a perfect human being and that your mere presence makes them happy? No? Then you dont know shit about if you do right by anyone.[/QUOTE]
My, aren't we getting touchy.
[quote name=''[lexus'];66902']Id still respect that employer, for the simple reason that he found a way to make more money then the rest, getting the resources he wants, and taking advantage of his employees who, despite being taken advantage of, still do what he says. I respect that he has power where others have non. I therefor respect him, even though I might think hes otherwise an asshole.[/QUOTE]
Got it, so you're prideless. You would respect a man who does harm to others just so he could make a buck. I think I understand what "kind" of person you are.
[quote name=''[lexus'];66902']So what? A professor is still a guy with a degree, and that is something that I as a student, am still lacking. Therefor, he has achieved more in life then I have, thus he got my respect. On top of that, he is probably older, thus he also experienced more then I have, which also entitles him to some of my respect. And on top of that, hes also the guy who is gonna decide if you fail or pass his course, which means he has more power then me, and that also entitles him to my respect. The level of respect he has for me is completely irrelevant.[/QUOTE]
You missed the point. Not that I'm surprised. A person's position does not entitle them to respect. Respect must be earned. If a person regardless of age or job fails to do their part to inspire others to respect them (treating them with respect) then he is not to be respected. Do I have to explain that to you as well?
[quote name=''[lexus'];66902']Who said anything about that I believe that people give me as much respect as I give them? I know that I probably get less respect from most older people, and rightfully so in most cases. Im young, and I have yet to prove myself worthy of any respect.[/QUOTE]
You've done a spectacular job so far.
[quote name=''[lexus'];66902']Anyways, my argument is not about the way you behave. My argument was about what you achieved. The fact that you act all nice towards your boss says nothing about what you achieved at work. Your achievements determine my respect for you and that was what I meant to say when I said that maybe you have done nothing to deserve peoples respect. I said that maybe you havent achieved anything worth peoples respect. And thats why elder people do deserve my respect, because regardless of their behavior towards me, they achieved more in life then me.[/QUOTE]
How admirable.
[quote name='ZERO PHOENIX']Got it. You're faking it.[/QUOTE]
Do not presume to know what Im faking and what not. You dont.
Do you now? Amuse me.
No, you missed my point. You claim that respect must be earned by respecting others. I disagree with your claim to some extend. I still feel that respect must be earned, but you earn it by achieving things. Older people have usually achieved more then me, meaning that they earn my respect. Sure, the level of respect depends on the person, as some people achieved more in their life then others. But that persons attitude and respect towards me are irrelevant for me to respect someone.
So have you
Do not presume to know what Im faking and what not. You dont.
Do you now? Amuse me.
No, you missed my point. You claim that respect must be earned by respecting others. I disagree with your claim to some extend. I still feel that respect must be earned, but you earn it by achieving things. Older people have usually achieved more then me, meaning that they earn my respect. Sure, the level of respect depends on the person, as some people achieved more in their life then others. But that persons attitude and respect towards me are irrelevant for me to respect someone.
So have you
[quote name='ZERO PHOENIX']My argument is simple. A person's conduct determines the level of respect they ought to receive. To respect someone simply because they are older is folly.[/QUOTE]
I fully agree with you on this. Although older people are probably smarter/more experienced/etc, ability and/or achievements alone do not determine if they should be respected. Respect should be worked for. If a person has no credentials or ability, yet conducts himself in a manner that is honourable and positive, then I will respect him all the same.
I fully agree with you on this. Although older people are probably smarter/more experienced/etc, ability and/or achievements alone do not determine if they should be respected. Respect should be worked for. If a person has no credentials or ability, yet conducts himself in a manner that is honourable and positive, then I will respect him all the same.
[quote name='Hadriel']
I fully agree with you on this. Although older people are probably smarter/more experienced/etc, ability and/or achievements alone do not determine if they should be respected. Respect should be worked for. If a person has no credentials or ability, yet conducts himself in a manner that is honourable and positive, then I will respect him all the same.[/QUOTE]
I'm glad you have a higher understanding Hadriel. You are a credit to this discussion and I look forward to seeing what else you have to say in future discussions.
I fully agree with you on this. Although older people are probably smarter/more experienced/etc, ability and/or achievements alone do not determine if they should be respected. Respect should be worked for. If a person has no credentials or ability, yet conducts himself in a manner that is honourable and positive, then I will respect him all the same.[/QUOTE]
I'm glad you have a higher understanding Hadriel. You are a credit to this discussion and I look forward to seeing what else you have to say in future discussions.
[quote name='ZERO PHOENIX']I'm glad you have a higher understanding Hadriel. You are a credit to this discussion and I look forward to seeing what else you have to say in future discussions.[/QUOTE]
Well, don't discredit the others who may have opposing viewpoints. Everyone is entitled to his or her own perspective.
Still, it is my personal belief that respect is not gained by statistical achievements and abilities, but by spending time with the person in question and getting a better understanding of his perspectives, thoughts and ideas.
For example, take famous Southeast Asian nationalist leader Sukarno. He didn't boast of any remarkable achievements or credentials, but the key to his overwhelming success and respect from locals lay in his ability to relate to the masses. He was able to make them understand him on a personal level, understand that he had visions and dreams for Indonesia, and that he needed their support to make this come true.
Well, don't discredit the others who may have opposing viewpoints. Everyone is entitled to his or her own perspective.
Still, it is my personal belief that respect is not gained by statistical achievements and abilities, but by spending time with the person in question and getting a better understanding of his perspectives, thoughts and ideas.
For example, take famous Southeast Asian nationalist leader Sukarno. He didn't boast of any remarkable achievements or credentials, but the key to his overwhelming success and respect from locals lay in his ability to relate to the masses. He was able to make them understand him on a personal level, understand that he had visions and dreams for Indonesia, and that he needed their support to make this come true.
[quote name=''[lexus'];67933']Do not presume to know what Im faking and what not. You dont.
Do you now? Amuse me.
No, you missed my point. You claim that respect must be earned by respecting others. I disagree with your claim to some extend. I still feel that respect must be earned, but you earn it by achieving things. Older people have usually achieved more then me, meaning that they earn my respect. Sure, the level of respect depends on the person, as some people achieved more in their life then others. But that persons attitude and respect towards me are irrelevant for me to respect someone.
So have you[/QUOTE]
Ditto this line, It's pretty much how I feel about respect. Someone that has more experience and / or achievements than me earns my respect.
Off-topic... Just because someone else's opinion isn't in line with yours doesnt mean they dont have any credit in this discussion. Frankly, isn't that what discussions are for? To see someone else's side to it.
Do you now? Amuse me.
No, you missed my point. You claim that respect must be earned by respecting others. I disagree with your claim to some extend. I still feel that respect must be earned, but you earn it by achieving things. Older people have usually achieved more then me, meaning that they earn my respect. Sure, the level of respect depends on the person, as some people achieved more in their life then others. But that persons attitude and respect towards me are irrelevant for me to respect someone.
So have you
[/QUOTE]Ditto this line, It's pretty much how I feel about respect. Someone that has more experience and / or achievements than me earns my respect.
Off-topic... Just because someone else's opinion isn't in line with yours doesnt mean they dont have any credit in this discussion. Frankly, isn't that what discussions are for? To see someone else's side to it.
[quote name='Lily']Ditto this line, It's pretty much how I feel about respect. Someone that has more experience and / or achievements than me earns my respect.
[/QUOTE]
Well, you're entitled to your opinion (and rightfully so), but what about autocratic rulers and right-wing dictators? For example, people like Hitler and Stalin led the masses through a rule of fear and oppression. They had achievements under their belts, such as Stalin's successful expansionism and creating of the eastern communist bloc in Europe, but did the people really respect them for these achievements alone? Would anyone respect a person who has achievements and experience, yet acts in a condescending manner? Sure, experience and achievements are important, but so is attitude.
[/QUOTE]
Well, you're entitled to your opinion (and rightfully so), but what about autocratic rulers and right-wing dictators? For example, people like Hitler and Stalin led the masses through a rule of fear and oppression. They had achievements under their belts, such as Stalin's successful expansionism and creating of the eastern communist bloc in Europe, but did the people really respect them for these achievements alone? Would anyone respect a person who has achievements and experience, yet acts in a condescending manner? Sure, experience and achievements are important, but so is attitude.
With their achievements and charisma, both Hitler and Stalin were adored by the masses and with adoration comes respect. Hitler drove people to the point, where the masses thought it was divine will, to send their elders and handicaped to euthanasia, to free hospitals for the young soldiers "dying on the frontlines". And so they did it all, and Hitler didnt even try to force them. Hitler was their Idol, they would have, heck they have done anything/everything for him. It was way later that cracks of fear and oppression appeared.
But Im getting off-topic, I should have probably elaborated my statement, sorry for that. In my first post in this thread I mentioned that while yes, I'd give respect to elders even if they havent 'deserved' it (getting to know the person etc.). They could easily lose my respect, with their actions.
But Im getting off-topic, I should have probably elaborated my statement, sorry for that. In my first post in this thread I mentioned that while yes, I'd give respect to elders even if they havent 'deserved' it (getting to know the person etc.). They could easily lose my respect, with their actions.
[quote name='Hadriel']
Well, you're entitled to your opinion (and rightfully so), but what about autocratic rulers and right-wing dictators? For example, people like Hitler and Stalin led the masses through a rule of fear and oppression. They had achievements under their belts, such as Stalin's successful expansionism and creating of the eastern communist bloc in Europe, but did the people really respect them for these achievements alone? Would anyone respect a person who has achievements and experience, yet acts in a condescending manner? Sure, experience and achievements are important, but so is attitude.[/QUOTE]
Well, plenty of Russians still believe that Stalin was one of the best leaders of Russia, despite the horrible things he has done to people.
Also, Hitler worked his way from a failed painter in Austria up to leader of Germany and then proceeded to conquer most of Europe. That earns him my respect. He was still a psychopathic lunatic though.
I think youre confusing respecting someone and liking someone. I can respect someone and still think hes a stupid douchebag that Id love to punch in the face. And I can have no respect at all for someone and he can still be my friend at the same time. I dont see respect and my personal opinion of a person as something that are linked.
Also, take several rival generals throughout history. They disliked each other, but they still respected the tactical brilliance their opponent possessed.
However, I think this is rather personal and quite pointless to discuss. I mean, the reasons you respect someone are personal, and therefor not right or wrong.
Well, you're entitled to your opinion (and rightfully so), but what about autocratic rulers and right-wing dictators? For example, people like Hitler and Stalin led the masses through a rule of fear and oppression. They had achievements under their belts, such as Stalin's successful expansionism and creating of the eastern communist bloc in Europe, but did the people really respect them for these achievements alone? Would anyone respect a person who has achievements and experience, yet acts in a condescending manner? Sure, experience and achievements are important, but so is attitude.[/QUOTE]
Well, plenty of Russians still believe that Stalin was one of the best leaders of Russia, despite the horrible things he has done to people.
Also, Hitler worked his way from a failed painter in Austria up to leader of Germany and then proceeded to conquer most of Europe. That earns him my respect. He was still a psychopathic lunatic though.
I think youre confusing respecting someone and liking someone. I can respect someone and still think hes a stupid douchebag that Id love to punch in the face. And I can have no respect at all for someone and he can still be my friend at the same time. I dont see respect and my personal opinion of a person as something that are linked.
Also, take several rival generals throughout history. They disliked each other, but they still respected the tactical brilliance their opponent possessed.
However, I think this is rather personal and quite pointless to discuss. I mean, the reasons you respect someone are personal, and therefor not right or wrong.
[quote name='Lily']With their achievements and charisma, both Hitler and Stalin were adored by the masses and with adoration comes respect. Hitler drove people to the point, where the masses thought it was divine will, to send their elders and handicaped to euthanasia, to free hospitals for the young soldiers "dying on the frontlines". And so they did it all, and Hitler didnt even try to force them. Hitler was their Idol, they would have, heck they have done anything/everything for him. It was way later that cracks of fear and oppression appeared.
But Im getting off-topic, I should have probably elaborated my statement, sorry for that. In my first post in this thread I mentioned that while yes, I'd give respect to elders even if they havent 'deserved' it (getting to know the person etc.). They could easily lose my respect, with their actions.[/QUOTE]
Exactly my point. That's the third dimension to the traits a leader posesses. Charisma doesn't fall under achievements or abilities. Charisma can only be seen through interaction with the person itself. However, empty charisma, in my opinion, just won't cut it. People need to say things and mean it in order to gain the respect of the masses.
As for your point, to say that both Hitler and Stalin were unanimously adored and respected by the masses would be a gross overgeneralization of the sentiments of the populace. I'm pretty sure that there were some people who did not respect Hitler and Stalin at all. What's your opinion on this? Do you feel that these people were foolish not to have respected their leaders? Or were they perfectly justified in not respecting a leader who controlled his people through mainly instilling fear into them?
But Im getting off-topic, I should have probably elaborated my statement, sorry for that. In my first post in this thread I mentioned that while yes, I'd give respect to elders even if they havent 'deserved' it (getting to know the person etc.). They could easily lose my respect, with their actions.[/QUOTE]
Exactly my point. That's the third dimension to the traits a leader posesses. Charisma doesn't fall under achievements or abilities. Charisma can only be seen through interaction with the person itself. However, empty charisma, in my opinion, just won't cut it. People need to say things and mean it in order to gain the respect of the masses.
As for your point, to say that both Hitler and Stalin were unanimously adored and respected by the masses would be a gross overgeneralization of the sentiments of the populace. I'm pretty sure that there were some people who did not respect Hitler and Stalin at all. What's your opinion on this? Do you feel that these people were foolish not to have respected their leaders? Or were they perfectly justified in not respecting a leader who controlled his people through mainly instilling fear into them?
[quote name='Hadriel']
What's your opinion on this? Do you feel that these people were foolish not to have respected their leaders? Or were they perfectly justified in not respecting a leader who controlled his people through mainly instilling fear into them?[/QUOTE]
There is really no justification needed behind respect or not respecting him. Just as there is no justification needed for liking or disliking someone. And it could have all kinds of reasons. People looked down on Hitler because he was a poor failed Austrian painter, and ignored the fact that he conquered half of Europe. Other people looked down on Stalin because he was a Georgian peasant/militant terrorist and ignored the fact that he won the Second World war. Is that any more justification then respecting him or not respecting him because he had to rule through fear?
What's your opinion on this? Do you feel that these people were foolish not to have respected their leaders? Or were they perfectly justified in not respecting a leader who controlled his people through mainly instilling fear into them?[/QUOTE]
There is really no justification needed behind respect or not respecting him. Just as there is no justification needed for liking or disliking someone. And it could have all kinds of reasons. People looked down on Hitler because he was a poor failed Austrian painter, and ignored the fact that he conquered half of Europe. Other people looked down on Stalin because he was a Georgian peasant/militant terrorist and ignored the fact that he won the Second World war. Is that any more justification then respecting him or not respecting him because he had to rule through fear?
[quote name='"[lexus']"]
There is really no justification needed behind respect or not respecting him. Just as there is no justification needed for liking or disliking someone. And it could have all kinds of reasons. People looked down on Hitler because he was a poor failed Austrian painter, and ignored the fact that he conquered half of Europe. Other people looked down on Stalin because he was a Georgian peasant/militant terrorist and ignored the fact that he won the Second World war. Is that any more justification then respecting him or not respecting him because he had to rule through fear?[/QUOTE]
Well, I'll have to agree with that, though I wonder: What are you trying to posit here? That respect just "happens" without justification?
There is really no justification needed behind respect or not respecting him. Just as there is no justification needed for liking or disliking someone. And it could have all kinds of reasons. People looked down on Hitler because he was a poor failed Austrian painter, and ignored the fact that he conquered half of Europe. Other people looked down on Stalin because he was a Georgian peasant/militant terrorist and ignored the fact that he won the Second World war. Is that any more justification then respecting him or not respecting him because he had to rule through fear?[/QUOTE]
Well, I'll have to agree with that, though I wonder: What are you trying to posit here? That respect just "happens" without justification?
[quote name='Hadriel']
Exactly my point. That's the third dimension to the traits a leader posesses. Charisma doesn't fall under achievements or abilities. Charisma can only be seen through interaction with the person itself. However, empty charisma, in my opinion, just won't cut it. People need to say things and mean it in order to gain the respect of the masses.
As for your point, to say that both Hitler and Stalin were unanimously adored and respected by the masses would be a gross overgeneralization of the sentiments of the populace. I'm pretty sure that there were some people who did not respect Hitler and Stalin at all. What's your opinion on this? Do you feel that these people were foolish not to have respected their leaders? Or were they perfectly justified in not respecting a leader who controlled his people through mainly instilling fear into them?[/QUOTE]
Not the discussion at all. Also, I have already stated this in previous posts: "They could easily lose my respect, with their actions."
I see charisma as an ability. Being liked by others. Some have it naturally in them, some learn the trick over the years. In my opinion it's an ability to be liked be a larger part of the massses (can you really say that they werent loved by more than half their population? They only got as far as they did with their ability to fool people, charm them, make promises, point fingers... basically brainwash them). Hitler definitely meant whatever he said, he came through with the promises he made to Germany.
It seems you are implying that I am descrediting what Hitler and Stalin did (the massacres etc.) because I said they were loved. That is not the case at all. They were imo horrible people.
Exactly my point. That's the third dimension to the traits a leader posesses. Charisma doesn't fall under achievements or abilities. Charisma can only be seen through interaction with the person itself. However, empty charisma, in my opinion, just won't cut it. People need to say things and mean it in order to gain the respect of the masses.
As for your point, to say that both Hitler and Stalin were unanimously adored and respected by the masses would be a gross overgeneralization of the sentiments of the populace. I'm pretty sure that there were some people who did not respect Hitler and Stalin at all. What's your opinion on this? Do you feel that these people were foolish not to have respected their leaders? Or were they perfectly justified in not respecting a leader who controlled his people through mainly instilling fear into them?[/QUOTE]
Not the discussion at all. Also, I have already stated this in previous posts: "They could easily lose my respect, with their actions."
I see charisma as an ability. Being liked by others. Some have it naturally in them, some learn the trick over the years. In my opinion it's an ability to be liked be a larger part of the massses (can you really say that they werent loved by more than half their population? They only got as far as they did with their ability to fool people, charm them, make promises, point fingers... basically brainwash them). Hitler definitely meant whatever he said, he came through with the promises he made to Germany.
It seems you are implying that I am descrediting what Hitler and Stalin did (the massacres etc.) because I said they were loved. That is not the case at all. They were imo horrible people.
[quote name='Hadriel']
Well, I'll have to agree with that, though I wonder: What are you trying to posit here? That respect just "happens" without justification?[/QUOTE]
No, the respect or disrespect had some reason, be it how he acted or because they felt his achievements were not worth his respect or something else. My point was more that you asked for a value judgment. One were no one here can say anything that makes any sense. Were they justified? You dont know, you will never know and you cant know. So why bother?
Well, I'll have to agree with that, though I wonder: What are you trying to posit here? That respect just "happens" without justification?[/QUOTE]
No, the respect or disrespect had some reason, be it how he acted or because they felt his achievements were not worth his respect or something else. My point was more that you asked for a value judgment. One were no one here can say anything that makes any sense. Were they justified? You dont know, you will never know and you cant know. So why bother?
The key word for this is ignore. People are quite surprised by my ability to ignore bad traits to such an extent of getting along with all sorts of people. Except elitists who look down on most people.
Like the others have said, I'd rather keep the frustration within myself and endure those who look down me, there's a time when they were disrespected too; so most likely that would be the reason of their assholenity.
And oh, the older the wiser? Lol I think its getting inverted now, looking at the older people who doesn't seem to grow up.
Like the others have said, I'd rather keep the frustration within myself and endure those who look down me, there's a time when they were disrespected too; so most likely that would be the reason of their assholenity.
And oh, the older the wiser? Lol I think its getting inverted now, looking at the older people who doesn't seem to grow up.