Create Your Ideal World

H

Hadriel

Hiatus
#21
#21
[quote name='"insane-azn"']



That's an awesome answer! But would the same principle be applied to the mentally I'll? (e.g. Paedophiles) Because me personally, I could never be able to accept/understand one, under any circumstances whatsoever...[/QUOTE]



Well, most mental illnesses have certain psychological trauma associated with them, such as violence in the family, etc, having to do with acceptance, which goes back to my previous point about how an ideal world would never create an environment for bad thoughts to harbor.



However, for mental illnesses which are completely independent of circumstances, then I'm afraid I don't have an answer right now, sorry. However, I would still accept them for who they are.
 
L

Lily

Dead is the new alive.
#22
#22
[quote name='ZERO PHOENIX']Welcome to my world. Hard to take any of these discussions seriously. :shrug:









Incorrect my dear. There were many who disagreed with me. [lexus] is the only lower class brute who resorted to personal attacks when I only asked him for his ideas. You might want to investigate these matters before you try to preside over them. This goes back to the Practical Genocide thread in which I raised a simple argument and wanted other people's thoughts. Rather than respond as an intellectual [lexus] slandered me and claimed that I was no better than the vermin I elected that we should exterminate. I choose a hypothetical situation to make an argument, [lexus] turned it into a personal attack which ballooned from there.



Are we all on the same page now or should I provide further explanation?





[/QUOTE]



I apologize for jumping to conclusions, I havent read where the exact 'attack' started. I had seen the first personal attack in the Feminism thread.

My point still stands though, none of us should attack anyone for thinking differently than we do.
 
N

Notorious

Colonel H Stinkmeaner
#23
#23
[quote name='Hadriel']However, for mental illnesses which are completely independent of circumstances, then I'm afraid I don't have an answer right now, sorry. However, I would still accept them for who they are.[/quote]



This is exactly my point. Sorry to put you on the spot, I just wanted to hear your personal opinion. I respect the fact that you could accept everyone for who they are, because frankly, I couldn't.
 
-lexus-

-lexus-

Visions of Hell
#24
#24
[quote name='Hadriel']

Sure, a world with disagreements is fun, but here we're talking about an ideal world. Think about the long-term. A world with conflict would be a bit less boring, but I personally would be much less satisfied living in it, suffering the dangers of everyday life fraught with conflict. Sure, an ideal world may be boring, but you're missing out the positive traits of it, which is that an ideal world is safe, without conflict and peaceful, and I think every human wants peace.[/QUOTE]



Yeah, but is that ideal? It would also be a world without creativity and innovation, as danger and defects are the source of innovation. It would be a world without any thrills, as everything you do is perfectly safe. You cant get drunk, break the speeding limits, have unprotected sex, etc. There would be no love, as its a source of conflict, nor any anger. Everyone would be a bunch of zombies hooked on anti depressants. Hmm, no, I prefer the chance on a premature death but the ability to live and have a bit of fun then what you are suggesting.



[quote name='Hadriel']



Ooooh, a tough one. Well, I don't have access to the facts right now, but I can safely say that most people commit crimes because they cannot find acceptance in the world they are currently in. In a world where everyone accepts each other, there would be any crime because there wouldn't be a basis for committing any.[/QUOTE]

Oh? And not because they are poor and live in a bad neighborhood, a place where crime pays as long as you dont get caught. I believe that acceptance has very little to do with it. Acceptance doesnt get you any money, dealing drugs does. Acceptance doesnt get you any well paid jobs if you dont have the money to get a decent college degree. Fraud does. All as long as you dont get caught.



I believe that the less people have to loose, the more acceptable they become to commit a crime. And the more people have to loose, the less likely it becomes for them to risk it all by breaking the law.
 
R

Ryu_Kaiser

Member
#25
#25
[quote name='ZERO PHOENIX']I want to know what is your ideal world. Also, if given the means (money, military strength, religious followers, etcetera) how would you go about creating it? Please people with all due respect save your criticisms until we have about five or so pages of people sharing ideas. I would very much like to know what each individual conceives as their idea world and I would like to know how they would go about it.



Imagine for a moment that someone is going to give you everything you need to create a brand new world. What would that world be? And why I ask, would you choose that world? What makes it ideal?[/QUOTE]



I would make a world full of pain and war. That's the best way for us human to get the ideal world. Because we've experience pain, we will strive for the best way to not feel the pain again.



An ideal world without human understand pain is doomed from the very start. Soon enough they will cause and start war and destroy the world.
 
Z

Zero Phoenix

The Second Coming of Hazama
#26
#26
[quote name='Ryu_Kaiser']I would make a world full of pain and war. That's the best way for us human to get the ideal world. Because we've experience pain, we will strive for the best way to not feel the pain again.



An ideal world without human understand pain is doomed from the very start. Soon enough they will cause and start war and destroy the world.[/QUOTE]





I like your plan. The only issue with it is that it won't work for some. For example, the Jews and the Palestinians have been at war for centuries. I'm sure they've felt a great deal of pain but they're no closer to peace than when they started.



Of course your ideas have merit. We all saw how quickly WWII ended with the dropping of the atomic bomb. The world learns through pain.
 
F

FeltLyner AshGrave

ElectroMaster
#27
#27
[quote name='Ryu_Kaiser']I would make a world full of pain and war. That's the best way for us human to get the ideal world. Because we've experience pain, we will strive for the best way to not feel the pain again.



An ideal world without human understand pain is doomed from the very start. Soon enough they will cause and start war and destroy the world.[/QUOTE]i disagree Pain is not the way i mean sure we can learn with experiencing pain but by pain that includes death of innocents right?i cant agree with that never
 
R

Ryu_Kaiser

Member
#28
#28
[quote name='Asbel AshLight']i disagree Pain is not the way i mean sure we can learn with experiencing pain but by pain that includes death of innocents right?i cant agree with that never[/QUOTE]



What can I say then? If you look through history, this world always had war before peace come! The dead of innocents are can't be helped. They are sacrifice for a better good. Japan knows it better than others. The dead of innocents people. Their sacrifice brought peace. Even if it just a momentary peace.



People will keep remember those sacrifice even after century or many decades. Then gradually, they will forget it and another war begin until peace come again. You must face it, the world learns from pain. Pain creates fear, fear creates peace.



Though some doesn't understand it even after sacrificing so many lives. I still thinking a comeback for Zero's argument.
 
F

FeltLyner AshGrave

ElectroMaster
#29
#29
[quote name='Ryu_Kaiser']What can I say then? If you look through history, this world always had war before peace come! The dead of innocents are can't be helped. They are sacrifice for a better good. Japan knows it better than others. The dead of innocents people. Their sacrifice brought peace. Even if it just a momentary peace.



People will keep remember those sacrifice even after century or many decades. Then gradually, they will forget it and another war begin until peace come again. You must face it, the world learns from pain. Pain creates fear, fear creates peace.



Though some doesn't understand it even after sacrificing so many lives. I still thinking a comeback for Zero's argument.[/QUOTE]screw history that doesnt make it right to kill Sacrifice for a better good? are you serious? more like victims of cruelty when Americans drop those bombs there little kids whos hoping for their future playing some just eat or sleep just hoping for a happy life yet they die like that without any choice to shape their future
 
Z

Zero Phoenix

The Second Coming of Hazama
#30
#30
[quote name='Asbel AshLight']screw history that doesnt make it right to kill Sacrifice for a better good? are you serious? more like victims of cruelty when Americans drop those bombs there little kids whos hoping for their future playing some just eat or sleep just hoping for a happy life yet they die like that without any choice to shape their future[/QUOTE]



Hm, just what I would expect from the Hero of the Nexus.:cool2:





Your heart is powerful. I understand your hesitation to sacrifice the innocent. And while I don't agree to the practice on moral grounds, it is practical. That's the type of world we live in. Nothing forces your enemies to make peace like fear does. And nothing strikes fear into your enemies like the willingness to do anything. If the threat that you'll break any rules, sacrifice any values, kill millions of non-combatants is real then the enemy will submit. Of course my argument is not to massacre innocents, I'm just playing Devil's Advocate to keep the debate going.



I'm on the same page as you Felt, simply I see the practicality in the implementation of worldwide pain. It's inhumane, but it's practical.
 
N

noex1337

Emmie was here
#31
#31
A world without humans. I want to see if it really would be peace and harmony (relatively)



[quote name='Ryu_Kaiser']What can I say then? If you look through history, this world always had war before peace come! The dead of innocents are can't be helped. They are sacrifice for a better good. Japan knows it better than others. The dead of innocents people. Their sacrifice brought peace. Even if it just a momentary peace.



People will keep remember those sacrifice even after century or many decades. Then gradually, they will forget it and another war begin until peace come again. You must face it, the world learns from pain. Pain creates fear, fear creates peace.



Though some doesn't understand it even after sacrificing so many lives. I still thinking a comeback for Zero's argument.[/QUOTE]



Seems like a setup for this:



[quote name='ZERO PHOENIX']Nough said.



[/QUOTE]



Now I see where you get your inspirations from. I knew your speeches sounded familiar.
 
Z

Zero Phoenix

The Second Coming of Hazama
#32
#32
[quote name='noex1337']Now I see where you get your inspirations from. I knew your speeches sounded familiar.[/QUOTE]



Not so much. If you were trying to take a shot at me you'll need to do better than that my friend. :D In terms of philosophical content Equilibrium didn't carry THAT much weight, but it's socio-political solutions to the problems we face were practical. Such is the reason I cited it.
 
-lexus-

-lexus-

Visions of Hell
#33
#33
[quote name='Asbel AshLight']i disagree Pain is not the way i mean sure we can learn with experiencing pain but by pain that includes death of innocents right?i cant agree with that never[/QUOTE]

Look at history. The EU is a direct result of a World War. It took them millions of dead before they said 'okay, enough war, death and destruction, lets do something more constructive with our time and resources and work together.'



Japan has it in their constitution I believe, that they will never accept war as a valid way to reach diplomatic goals. They dont even have an army, just a self defense force. For that to happen, two cities had to be nuked.



It would have been nice if humans just got along fine with each other and that the horrors of cities laying in ruins and millions of people being dead would not have to be used as motivators for cooperation. Sadly, we dont live in this world. But at least its good that you do not agree with this method. It shows that it is working.
 
X

Xeno

The Chosen One
#34
#34
Maybe where games are the purpose of life?LOL



Seriously, this is how my ideal world is:

1- People would know and help each other; And they would spend time building their communities.

2- Economic policies would be no longer privileged and it's going to be focused bettering everyone’s lives.

3- We would grow our own food, And pass this knowledge to our children.

4- We would understand how to live in perfect balance with the environment and each other.

5- Fear and paranoia would no longer exist.

6- Education and health care would be excellent and free for everyone.

7- People would work in their neighbourhoods, improving our dependence on local resources.

8- There will be no law, no governments, no police ... etc, Since all people are going to be living peaceful happy simple life with no reason to commit crimes against each others.
 
Z

Zero Phoenix

The Second Coming of Hazama
#35
#35
[quote name='Xeno']Maybe where games are the purpose of life?LOL[/QUOTE]





Well I mean in all seriousness that is the type of world that anime like Yu-Gi-Oh! and movies like Gamer gives us. Not exactly humane (Gamer) but it's certainly practical (Yu-Gi-Oh!). I'm not making light of your argument Xeno, simply adding some levity to this because I could sense that [lexus] was about "to go there."



Granted these are mere fantasies but I've always been interested in how Yu-Gi-Oh! decides everything with dueling. Anyone notice how there isn't any war in Yu-Gi-Oh! and even the crime rate is lower? Maybe instead of throwing blows we should throwdown a couple facedowns and end our turn.



In any case Xeno you have some great ideas. The only issue is freewill. In number 8 you cited that there would be no need for governments, law, and the like. I disagree. Violence did not come as a result of law. The law came about as a result of violence. People abusing their freewill led to sanctions, which led to law, which led to our current system.



As Dostoevsky teaches us as long as people have freewill, there will always be those groups who wish to use that freewill to abuse others.
 
U

Undead-Cookie

Spam-Bot
#36
#36
A world of immortals.(but then the whole world will fall down due to weight, but if they are to live that long, by time they will learn new things such as living outer space, overseas, boats,etc.).



[quote name='Ryu_Kaiser']What can I say then? If you look through history, this world always had war before peace come! The dead of innocents are can't be helped. They are sacrifice for a better good. Japan knows it better than others. The dead of innocents people. Their sacrifice brought peace. Even if it just a momentary peace.



People will keep remember those sacrifice even after century or many decades. Then gradually, they will forget it and another war begin until peace come again. You must face it, the world learns from pain. Pain creates fear, fear creates peace.

[/QUOTE]



Weired, but well said brada.
 
Kaze Araki

Kaze Araki

Libertarian Communist
#37
#37
[quote name='Xeno']Maybe where games are the purpose of life?LOL



Seriously, this is how my ideal world is:

1- People would know and help each other; And they would spend time building their communities.

2- Economic policies would be no longer privileged and it's going to be focused bettering everyone’s lives.

3- We would grow our own food, And pass this knowledge to our children.

4- We would understand how to live in perfect balance with the environment and each other.

5- Fear and paranoia would no longer exist.

6- Education and health care would be excellent and free for everyone.

7- People would work in their neighbourhoods, improving our dependence on local resources.

8- There will be no law, no governments, no police ... etc, Since all people are going to be living peaceful happy simple life with no reason to commit crimes against each others.[/QUOTE]

Hi there fellow anarchist.
 
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