The United States of Amnesia

[Kaze Araki]

Henry Kissinger, Martyn Indyk , Dennis Ross; these people are part of the establishments.

Henry Kissinger - we all know he's a war criminal.
Martin Indyk - a pro Israel Lobbyist (see in Youtube how Finkelstein grill him to dust)
Dennis Ross - another pro Israel Lobbyist (see Chomsky-Dershowitz debate where Chomsky pointed out how worthless and meaningless is Ross' book and words - with evidences).

I don't see any diversity in all the above names.
I doubt I will see any writings from scholars such as Noam Chomsky, Howard Zinn, Norman Finkelstein, John Mearsheimer, Robert Fisk, Michael Scheuer, Ray McGovern etc. in MERIA.
I would be surprised if I find them.

I tell you this;
If you want to read something scholarly in regard political science, go to COUNTERPUNCH.

 

[Canabary]

Henry Kissinger, Martyn Indyk , Dennis Ross; these people are part of the establishments.

Henry Kissinger - we all know he's a war criminal.
Martin Indyk - a pro Israel Lobbyist (see in Youtube how Finkelstein grill him to dust)
Dennis Ross - another pro Israel Lobbyist (see Chomsky-Dershowitz debate where Chomsky pointed out how worthless and meaningless is Ross' book and words - with evidences).

I don't see any diversity in all the above names.
I doubt I will see any writings from scholars such as Noam Chomsky, Howard Zinn, Norman Finkelstein, John Mearsheimer, Robert Fisk, Michael Scheuer, Ray McGovern etc. in MERIA.
I would be surprised if I find them.

I tell you this;
If you want to read something scholarly in regard political science, go to COUNTERPUNCH.

I prefer Foreign Policy, World Political Science Review, International Affairs and the other I used to have access to when I was a registered student

Unfortunately they are pay to read for private individuals...

 

[Kaze Araki]

I prefer substance.

 

[Canabary]

I prefer substance.

Be honest Kaze, you prefer anything bashing America

 

[Canabary]

I believe that as with all Empires the United States reign of power will also end. We've seen the Roman empire rise and fall, as we have, the Mongol, the Greek, the Azteck, the British and even the German. It seems to be an undeniable fact that power tends to shift between areas of the world. The question isn't really if this will happen, because it seems inevitable, but who will assume the role as the new "power" and how they will fall.

A possible scenario is that Capitalism's many flaws would become too much for the United States, and indeed the World, to handle. Causing the "Empire" to lose it's tool of power (aside from military might) and slowly but surely shift power to another region. Some would argue that this is already happening and that China are in line of accession. Personally I see three, maybe four, potential candidates.

China, being the most obvious one fast growing economy a shockingly large population and military as well as vast natural resoures, a stumbling block could be their political situation.

India, they have a large population and a growing technological environment. In addition they are also fairly well off in terms of national resources, and their political situation is a little more stable than the Chinese. I could see the Pakistani/Indian relationship become a stumbling block here though.

Brazil, quite a large population, extremely popular in the region, vast national resources and a growing power on the international stage. Their political situation is very stable, although their population is significantly smaller than the two forementioned and they are some way off the economical, and certainly military power of China.

Europe, If Europe could ever get its act together and co-operate it could easil assume a power position. A relatively large population, vast ammounts of natural resources and a very high level of technology. Obvious problem is Europeans are notoriously known for not agreeing on anything, and end up fighting eacother more often than not. So that is unlikely.

 

[-lexus-]

A possible scenario is that Capitalism's many flaws would become too much for the United States, and indeed the World, to handle. Causing the "Empire" to lose it's tool of power (aside from military might) and slowly but surely shift power to another region. Some would argue that this is already happening and that China are in line of accession. Personally I see three, maybe four, potential candidates.

Id say that the current form of almost unrestricted 'capitalism' as it is done in the US is impossible to hold down like that forever. And to add to that, the current political situation in America isnt really stable as well, with the Tea party threatening to blow up the American economy by not supporting a debt level increase. If they go on like this they will go from one major crisis to the next, and if the rest of the world doesnt watch out, they may well be dragged along for the ride.

I would place my money on China though. Largest population, actually relatively stable political situation as long as their economy keeps growing (although I suppose political reforms will be necessary at some point if they want to keep their edge). I can also see Russia rising again if they continue to play their cards right. Their sheer size and massive amount of resources as well as being Europe's and China's neighbor pretty much guarantees that they keep playing a significant role on the world stage.

Europe, If Europe could ever get its act together and co-operate it could easil assume a power position. A relatively large population, vast ammounts of natural resources and a very high level of technology. Obvious problem is Europeans are notoriously known for not agreeing on anything, and end up fighting eacother more often than not. So that is unlikely.

EU integration is a slow progress. I doubt you will get to see a European Federation or something similar within the next 50 years. At least, if things keep going as they are going. Who knows what happens when some major crisis happens. The current situation in Greece has done wonders for European economic integration in the sense that they are forced to make sure this doesnt happen again.

And well, Europeans fighting each other constantly was what gave Europe an edge in the end and it is the reason why it was Europe that colonized the New World and not China or the Ottoman empire.

 

[Canabary]

Id say that the current form of almost unrestricted 'capitalism' as it is done in the US is impossible to hold down like that forever. And to add to that, the current political situation in America isnt really stable as well, with the Tea party threatening to blow up the American economy by not supporting a debt level increase. If they go on like this they will go from one major crisis to the next, and if the rest of the world doesnt watch out, they may well be dragged along for the ride.

Meh the debt ceiling is an arbitrary number that no one really cares about. They've raised it 102 times already, clearly it's not all that important as people are trying to tell us. I'm not exactly sure how going over this fictional ceiling that has been raised so many times would actually do, but it sounds implausible that it would end America as we know it. China might demand their money at some point, but it's not like they'd go to an all out war with a nuke armed United States over an arbitrary number that in the end matters very little to the factual situation.

I would place my money on China though. Largest population, actually relatively stable political situation as long as their economy keeps growing (although I suppose political reforms will be necessary at some point if they want to keep their edge). I can also see Russia rising again if they continue to play their cards right. Their sheer size and massive amount of resources as well as being Europe's and China's neighbor pretty much guarantees that they keep playing a significant role on the world stage.

China's political situation's stability could be threatened by quite a lot of factors though. Nationalists may feel that Beijing's line towards Taiwan isn't strong enough and cause upsets because of that. The poor in rural parts of China might finally be fed up and rebel, or the people in Hong Kong and other major cities might feel like they should have a bigger say in things. Although they are politically stable as of right now there are lot of pitfalls that could prevent an accension to power.

Russia I agree with. If they play their cards right it would be very difficult to ignore them. They already have connections with China, the Middle East and several other countries. The big russian bear is not going away anytime soon

EU integration is a slow progress. I doubt you will get to see a European Federation or something similar within the next 50 years. At least, if things keep going as they are going. Who knows what happens when some major crisis happens. The current situation in Greece has done wonders for European economic integration in the sense that they are forced to make sure this doesnt happen again.

And well, Europeans fighting each other constantly was what gave Europe an edge in the end and it is the reason why it was Europe that colonized the New World and not China or the Ottoman empire.

Yeah, it seems unlikely for Europe to agree on anything tbh. Just deciding where the capital of such a "federation" would be could spark massive conflict. We hardly agree on anything, how the hell are we going to agree enough to manage to build a functioning federation is beyond me.

True. Competition breeds progress I suppose. I suppose the reason Europe took the lead in colonization was due to European weapon technology, wchih was far more advanced than that coming from the East. As a result of that the Europeans basically took what they wanted. Without the expansion of territories, or colonialism if you will, European colonization to the extent that we saw wouldn't have been possible. The fact that Portugal, France and the UK were primary seafaring nations might also have had some impact on the colonzation of the new world now that I think about it.

 

[-lexus-]

Meh the debt ceiling is an arbitrary number that no one really cares about. They've raised it 102 times already, clearly it's not all that important as people are trying to tell us. I'm not exactly sure how going over this fictional ceiling that has been raised so many times would actually do, but it sounds implausible that it would end America as we know it. China might demand their money at some point, but it's not like they'd go to an all out war with a nuke armed United States over an arbitrary number that in the end matters very little to the factual situation.

Not right away in the sense that the government suddenly ceases to exist or something. But this instability has its effects on the markets and they will not respond well to this. And as the saying goes, if America sneezes, the rest of the world catches a cold. I too doubt it will go that far, although with people like the Tea Party Im never sure. And this number cant keep going up and up and up. At some point, people will loose faith in the credit rating of America. Imagine the sheer chaos it would cause on the international markets when the credit rating of America goes down?

China's political situation's stability could be threatened by quite a lot of factors though. Nationalists may feel that Beijing's line towards Taiwan isn't strong enough and cause upsets because of that. The poor in rural parts of China might finally be fed up and rebel, or the people in Hong Kong and other major cities might feel like they should have a bigger say in things. Although they are politically stable as of right now there are lot of pitfalls that could prevent an accension to power.

I suppose that is true, but I dont know how likely those scenarios are.

Yeah, it seems unlikely for Europe to agree on anything tbh. Just deciding where the capital of such a "federation" would be could spark massive conflict. We hardly agree on anything, how the hell are we going to agree enough to manage to build a functioning federation is beyond me.

Well, they managed to get this far, didnt they? France and Germany went from sworn arch enemies to beingl partners in a supranational intergovernmental organization along with the rest of Europe in little more then 61 years. If they would really think they are ready to give up sovereignty in order to be joined in a European Federation, such things would be easily settled over in a conference.

 

[Canabary]

Not right away in the sense that the government suddenly ceases to exist or something. But this instability has its effects on the markets and they will not respond well to this. And as the saying goes, if America sneezes, the rest of the world catches a cold. I too doubt it will go that far, although with people like the Tea Party Im never sure. And this number cant keep going up and up and up. At some point, people will loose faith in the credit rating of America. Imagine the sheer chaos it would cause on the international markets when the credit rating of America goes down?

True, but wouldn't this be the case regardless of the debt ceiling? I mean the more it rises the more obvious it is they have lost control of it. They have in fact lost control of it 102 times, it seem strange that the reactions on the world markets would turn sharply having been so relatively low/weak up to now. Unless they actually do something to fix the problem (not just raising an arbitary number) surely the effect would happen regardless?

Well, they managed to get this far, didnt they? France and Germany went from sworn arch enemies to beingl partners in a supranational intergovernmental organization along with the rest of Europe in little more then 61 years. If they would really think they are ready to give up sovereignty in order to be joined in a European Federation, such things would be easily settled over in a conference.

I must admitt, I remain sceptical. If forced into it they might be more willing to work together in such a manner, but even then...

 

[-lexus-]

True, but wouldn't this be the case regardless of the debt ceiling? I mean the more it rises the more obvious it is they have lost control of it. They have in fact lost control of it 102 times, it seem strange that the reactions on the world markets would turn sharply having been so relatively low/weak up to now. Unless they actually do something to fix the problem (not just raising an arbitary number) surely the effect would happen regardless?

Yes, but raising this number is essentially buying the American government some time to implement measures to stabilize the whole situation. The financial world knows this, and they trust the American government to be sensible enough to find a solution to deal with this huge deficit. They are willing to wait a while until they can either raise taxes or cut almost half of the government budget or a combination of both.

Besides that, a number of measures will take some time to take effect. No one is willing to send the world economy in to another potential crisis because some banks couldnt wait for their money for a few more months/year.

I must admitt, I remain sceptical. If forced into it they might be more willing to work together in such a manner, but even then...

Well, the ECSC didnt start out forced at all. It where the French who proposed it and welcomed everyone in the world to join. Germany saw the benefits of it, just like the Dutch, Belgians, Italians and Luxembourgers and joined up. No one was forced, although I think the Americans did apply some pressure on the Germans when they started stalling the negotiations for some reason.

 

[Zero Phoenix]

Be honest Kaze, you prefer anything bashing America

That's true. Now I'm not sure how the rest of HLS feels but the two of who have bored the hell out of us for the past three weeks with this east versus west fiasco. I'm taking control of this discussion and steering it away from your self-serving arguments.

In case you forgot (Kaze Araki) the topic of this discussion is:

Capitalism and Colonialism in modern days.
Will the empire survive?

Given the current events and this Debt Ceiling fiasco, I trust you have commetary that actually has something to do with the topic "you" set forth.

 

[Canabary]

6 posts that were supposed to be here were in the wrong topic :/

 

[Kaze Araki]

In case you forgot (Kaze Araki) the topic of this discussion is:

Capitalism and Colonialism in modern days.
Will the empire survive?

Given the current events and this Debt Ceiling fiasco, I trust you have commetary that actually has something to do with the topic "you" set forth.

Debt Ceiling is an artificial concern that isn't even a concern, spouted by both Republicans and Democrats in an orchestrated attempt to massively cut social funding while at the same time providing tax cuts upon tax cuts for the rich. This isn't even the first time where Debt Ceiling is increased, nor would this be the last. It's simply a consequence of our debt-based monetary system (i.e. the value of money depends on the amount of debt, no debt = no money).

6 posts that were supposed to be here were in the wrong topic :/

You can copy them here but don't remove them from there, otherwise it will break the flow of the said thread.

 

[-lexus-]

It's simply a consequence of our debt-based monetary system (i.e. the value of money depends on the amount of debt, no debt = no money).

What?

Im pretty sure that the value of the dollar doesnt depend on the amount of debt the US has. And if it does, Im pretty sure it only affect the dollar negatively, as it means you need to take out more loans, increase the amount of money that is in circulation and thus get inflation.

 

[Core]

What?

Im pretty sure that the value of the dollar doesnt depend on the amount of debt the US has. And if it does, Im pretty sure it only affect the dollar negatively, as it means you need to take out more loans, increase the amount of money that is in circulation and thus get inflation.

Welcome to the reason why the system is flawed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractional-reserve_banking

Not really sure How to emphasize the point more strongly then the awesomeness of editable wikepedianess....

 

[Canabary]

You can copy them here but don't remove them from there, otherwise it will break the flow of the said thread.

I moved them, and checked the contents of the posts. None of them (bar one of mine) had anything to do with Isreal. You should find them on the previous page.

 

[Kaze Araki]

What?

Im pretty sure that the value of the dollar doesnt depend on the amount of debt the US has. And if it does, Im pretty sure it only affect the dollar negatively, as it means you need to take out more loans, increase the amount of money that is in circulation and thus get inflation.

Don't force me to teach you economics 101 once again.

I moved them, and checked the contents of the posts. None of them (bar one of mine) had anything to do with Isreal. You should find them on the previous page.

That really sucks.
As a forensic investigator, I prefer evidences to remain intact.
;gun;

 

[-lexus-]

Oh you were talking about Fractional Reserve Banking. You do realize that such a thing has very little to do with America's debt right. That is simply the result of America spending more then it gets. FRB has nothing to do with that.

And well, FRB doesnt actually increase the value of money. It increases the money supply (value of money increase is called deflation ie, you can buy more with 1 dollar then you could last month) which at worst increases inflation (money becomes worth less). Still, inflation isnt too bad as long as the inflation rate isnt to high and the loans of people increase as well.

 

[Core]

Oh you were talking about Fractional Reserve Banking. You do realize that such a thing has very little to do with America's debt right. That is simply the result of America spending more then it gets. FRB has nothing to do with that.

And well, FRB doesnt actually increase the value of money. It increases the money supply (value of money increase is called deflation ie, you can buy more with 1 dollar then you could last month) which at worst increases inflation (money becomes worth less). Still, inflation isnt too bad as long as the inflation rate isnt to high and the loans of people increase as well.

I love you dude.. but I have to...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGTBkNJ8ZWI


Watch that... come back.. or.. watch em all and then come back.. its extremely simplified.. it should not.. be complicated for anyone.

I just want to add.. that THE START of capitalism.. and Currency through DEBT started with the east india trading company and in specific.. The Dutch east india trading company that started issuing bonds instead of currency. A man would pay for a bond and own a part of the labor of the company.. which in turn had to be paid off by the workforce of that company.. etc etc etc VOILA CURRENT ECONOMICS!

 

[-lexus-]

I love you dude.. but I have to...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGTBkNJ8ZWI


Watch that... come back.. or.. watch em all and then come back.. its extremely simplified.. it should not.. be complicated for anyone.

I just want to add.. that THE START of capitalism.. and Currency through DEBT started with the east india trading company and in specific.. The Dutch east india trading company that started issuing bonds instead of currency. A man would pay for a bond and own a part of the labor of the company.. which in turn had to be paid off by the workforce of that company.. etc etc etc VOILA CURRENT ECONOMICS!

Ahh, that is why I love Youtube lessons on economics. Half of them are done by people who dont know shit about it. Bonds ARE NOT claims on a group of people. In case you dont know, organizations large enough to issue bonds are their own juridical entity. Thus, the people working for such a company cant be touched when the company goes down. All you own with a bond is exactly what the Company itself owns, probably the building and the machines. Your bond gets paid of with the money the company makes. If the company were to fail, you get your money back by the auctioning of the companies assets. Employees are protected and cant be touched.

Besides, bonds are essentially loans. You pay money for a bond, the company uses that money to finance itself so it can make more money, and then it uses the extra money to pay of the bond with interest (depending on the type of bond). They do not go own for an indefinite time although some bonds can be very long term.

Yes, the governments issues bonds in order to get money to finance itself. Mostly because they dont get enough income from taxes or because they spend to much. In any case, this does not create scarity nor does it cause the productive output of the Americans to go to foreign financial institutions. At least, not more then what the average American pays in taxes, and only a part of that goes to paying of the interest of these bonds. Productive output of a country and debt are not linked like that, its comparison is only used as an indicator of how much the debt is. And, if the American government were to suddenly cut a lot of spending and increased taxes, so it no longer has a budget deficit, they could pay of all their debt, without anything really happening to the economy.

Really I had to stop halfway through the video due to the sheer amount of bullshit the guy was spouting.