Die with honor or surrender to slavery?

[~Kitty~]

[quote name=''[lexus'];59793']Somehow I doubt you can imagine yourself actually fighting in a war where defeat means total submission...





Also, screw honor, Im better off without it. Fight to win, and use every possible advantage you have to win, instead of being honorable and giving the other party a fair chance to beat you.





Anyways, it depends for me. If loosing meant I was sent to some Nazi like death camp where my chances of survival and even my status as a human being are almost non existent, Id rather blow myself up or commit suicide or whatever then be taken alive. If loosing just means I have a dented pride, but I can still do whatever I want, meh, I wouldnt care. I doubt that in such a case I would even be participating in any war.[/QUOTE]





I will not surrender. Unless surrender means for the better of my country. But in the case of my thread its not.



Fight and take every one last of them with me. Yes!



Honestly though...I will not submit. Never

 

[Ryu_Kaiser]

[quote name='Graham Aker']I will not surrender. Unless surrender means for the better of my country. But in the case of my thread its not.



Fight and take every one last of them with me. Yes!



Honestly though...I will not submit. Never[/QUOTE]



Yeah. You're totally right Graham. If you think live as slave is better than you're so wrong. Slave won't have freedom for whatever they do. In war, not like I've ever been in one, being slave is the worst thing that could happen.



Well, war happen because the different between belief. The same as a karate match. You use every kind of your move to show your opponent that you're the right one. Sportsman can take their loss much better because they were happy they keep believing in their belief til the end. So, nothing wrong with die (loss) with honor rather than live but forced to change your believe or end up as slave.

 

[-lexus-]

[quote name='Graham Aker']I will not surrender. Unless surrender means for the better of my country. But in the case of my thread its not.



Fight and take every one last of them with me. Yes!



Honestly though...I will not submit. Never[/QUOTE]

How do you know? Have you ever been in a war? Have you ever had to defend your country from being overrun? Its easy to say these things safely from behind a computer screen knowing there is no war for you to fight. Just sayin.

 

[Hadriel]

[quote name='"Graham Aker"']



I will not surrender. Unless surrender means for the better of my country. But in the case of my thread its not.



Fight and take every one last of them with me. Yes!



Honestly though...I will not submit. Never[/QUOTE]



That's idealism. The problem is, that rarely happens except in the most valiant of fighters. That's why there are so many prisoners-of-war.

 

[~Kitty~]

[quote name=''[lexus'];59832']How do you know? Have you ever been in a war? Have you ever had to defend your country from being overrun? Its easy to say these things safely from behind a computer screen knowing there is no war for you to fight. Just sayin.[/QUOTE]



[quote name='Hadriel']



That's idealism. The problem is, that rarely happens except in the most valiant of fighters. That's why there are so many prisoners-of-war.[/QUOTE]





My words cant proof much.



But I know in myself what I will do when the time comes.



You may doubt me as much as you want. But I hold firm to my words.

I will fight and take down as many as I can.

That I believe I can and will do



Also Im a guy that fears old age anyway. So yes...I know I would.Fighting to death...

 

[Hadriel]

[quote name='"Graham Aker"']



My words cant proof much.



But I know in myself what I will do when the time comes.



You may doubt me as much as you want. But I hold firm to my words.

I will fight and take down as many as I can.

That I believe I can and will do



Also Im a guy that fears old age anyway. So yes...I know I would.Fighting to death...[/QUOTE]



Well, then, I respect your dedication.

 

[Zero Phoenix]

0 Returns

[quote name='Graham Aker']I will not surrender. Unless surrender means for the better of my country. But in the case of my thread its not.



Fight and take every one last of them with me. Yes!



Honestly though...I will not submit. Never[/QUOTE]





Hm, that honestly sounds more like Vergil than you my friend.









[quote name='Ryu_Kaiser']Yeah. You're totally right Graham. If you think live as slave is better than you're so wrong. Slave won't have freedom for whatever they do. In war, not like I've ever been in one, being slave is the worst thing that could happen.[/QUOTE]



Depends on the type and taint of slavery. We are all slaves my friend. ALL of us. Slavery is any form of servitude whether it be in mind, body, or soul. We're slaves to our jobs, we're slaves to our ideologies, and we're slaves to our habits, and the like. Suppose for example you take a cashier. That cashier is a slave to hell, let's say Walmart. We are all owned by someone. Not only that but some countries have a different view of slavery. The English call their slaves "subjects." You're not a "citizen" quote un-quote if you're a Brit. You're called a subject and therefore you are a slave. But people living in London today obviously don't have it as bad as blacks during the 1800s. Slavery is a deep, rabbit-hole type term and if we don't define it I guy like me can open this thing up like a can of worms and poke serious holes in this discussion. Just saying.







[quote name='Ryu_Kaiser']Well, war happen because the different between belief. The same as a karate match. You use every kind of your move to show your opponent that you're the right one. Sportsman can take their loss much better because they were happy they keep believing in their belief til the end. So, nothing wrong with die (loss) with honor rather than live but forced to change your believe or end up as slave.[/QUOTE]



I see what you're saying but you can't actually connect the two. The martial artist can always live and fight another day in this case. Also, just because he loses that doesn't mean he is right or wrong, honorable or not. Sometimes a fight is just a fight. The soldier on the otherhand, the one is this discussion, sh!t it's all or nothing.





[quote name=''[lexus'];59832']How do you know? Have you ever been in a war? Have you ever had to defend your country from being overrun? Its easy to say these things safely from behind a computer screen knowing there is no war for you to fight. Just sayin.[/QUOTE]



True that.







[quote name='Graham Aker']My words cant proof much.



But I know in myself what I will do when the time comes.



You may doubt me as much as you want. But I hold firm to my words.

I will fight and take down as many as I can.

That I believe I can and will do[/QUOTE]





Oh I like that. I like that very much. Talk is cheap but I have a feeling that you can cash any check your words write. I believe your words Mr. Bushido and I feel that your determination matches or at least aspires to that of your avatar. I do not doubt your conviction.







[quote name='Graham Aker']Also Im a guy that fears old age anyway. So yes...I know I would.Fighting to death...[/QUOTE]



Hell, most guys fear that. Not all, but most.

 

[-lexus-]

[quote name='ZERO PHOENIX']Depends on the type and taint of slavery. We are all slaves my friend. ALL of us. Slavery is any form of servitude whether it be in mind, body, or soul. We're slaves to our jobs, we're slaves to our ideologies, and we're slaves to our habits, and the like. Suppose for example you take a cashier. That cashier is a slave to hell, let's say Walmart. We are all owned by someone. Not only that but some countries have a different view of slavery. The English call their slaves "subjects." You're not a "citizen" quote un-quote if you're a Brit. You're called a subject and therefore you are a slave. But people living in London today obviously don't have it as bad as blacks during the 1800s. Slavery is a deep, rabbit-hole type term and if we don't define it I guy like me can open this thing up like a can of worms and poke serious holes in this discussion. Just saying.[/QUOTE]

Semantics and irrelevant mostly. The Queen of England doesnt actually own any citizens, she cant sell them, they have rights etc etc. That makes them free people. Slaves have either no or very limited rights, they are actually owned by someone in the same way you own a house, a car or something else. Slavery means youre no longer a human being but property of the person who owns you.



Youre not a slave to your company because they dont own you. You work for them, they pay you. There is a mutual relation ship between you and your boss. Your boss cant sell you, he cant force you to do stuff thats not in your job description, and you can quit whenever you like.



Youre only a slave to your ideology/passions/habits in a broad metaphorical sense. I assume thats irrelevant to this whole discussion as I believe the OP made it pretty clear this was more about the classical form of slavery.

 

[Yuki-chan]

<<< wants to say something >__< um.... um.... I woulden't want to die cuz then I woulden't know what's going to happen in the future and the last thing that I remember would be that I was defedet >__<

 

[Undead-Cookie]

Better to die with honor BUT fine to become their slaves if you have some in your canon, which should be useful on the late run.

 

[dark_9tails]

Die with honor definitely sounds better but if you wanna keep your life, then you'll just have to surrender yourself to slavery. But being a PoW doesn't sound so bad, since you get to meet new friends lol.

 

[Undead-Cookie]

Well, you'll die anyway.

 

[dark_9tails]

[quote name='Pyro Fighter']Well, you'll die anyway.[/QUOTE]



Yeah you're right xD But being a slave could increase your life span.

 

[FeltLyner AshGrave]

hmm i never been to war as a Soldier but i been involved with Riots to save my friends back in the day it depends on the Situation sometimes they resort to cheap tricks if fighting means endanger the innocents safety then i surrender but if its to protect them then i fight