[Discussion Thread] The Dark Knight [Game Over]
- Thread starter VivaLaDementia
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[quote name='VivaLaDementia' timestamp='1307498828' post='148891']
The Commissioner has revealed Hadriel to be "The Joker"
The Joker has killed Wolfnagi (Wayne Enterprise R&D Department Scientist - Commissioner)
[/quote]
This is simply not a possible scenario. In most AGs, lynch and night kills take priority over all other abilities used, so we don't get paradoxes like this. I think it's a case of day post manipulation here. Day post manipulation does not affect the day post chronologically, so it doesn't necessarily have to come in last. My guess is that the Joker tried to frame me as being the Joker using an investigation Wolfnagi never got to do because the Joker killed him. Furthermore, we were all for Wolfnagi investigating Lily/Rina yesterday, so it doesn't make any sense that he would change his investigation target to me at the last minute. Well, it's pretty obvious that the Joker did manipulate the day post since this paradox happened.
To clarify: I am not the Joker. The Joker has a day post manipulation skill, and this part of the day post substantiates it.
Even more, look at yesterday's day post:
[quote name='VivaLaDementia' timestamp='1307326348' post='147577']
Daily Post:
Event #2 & #3 have been triggered:
[/quote]
We know that event #2 was the buddy system thing, but what was event #3? My guess is that since event #3 never saw any tangible effect, event #3 is possibly a day post manipulation event.
Edit: Here, have a look at Kamil's posts, which I feel reveal pretty much about which side he is on.
[quote name='Kamil' timestamp='1307245251' post='146731']
Well at least this time the assassins can't have my role sheet...
[/quote]
[quote name='Kamil' timestamp='1307253981' post='146832']
I doubt it will work, but
If your role sheet says the following:
Please contact me.
[/quote]
[quote name='Kamil' timestamp='1307332664' post='147603']
Hmmm... Good to know that I can kill someone, though I see no reason to.
Well I'll decide at some point, most likely not killing him if he becomes active.
[/quote]
[quote name='Kamil' timestamp='1307414701' post='148349']
/facedesk
We are so f^cked.
Please lynch me so we can disobey the Joker without me having to deal with the consequences.
[/quote]
Sounds like reverse psychology to me, since he has contributed ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to the game other than to support Crom, and for that Crom decides to leave him out of the suspect list? What, do I have to buy Crom a diamond ring so he can clear my name? This is shameless subjective favouritism, Crom.
The Commissioner has revealed Hadriel to be "The Joker"
The Joker has killed Wolfnagi (Wayne Enterprise R&D Department Scientist - Commissioner)
[/quote]
This is simply not a possible scenario. In most AGs, lynch and night kills take priority over all other abilities used, so we don't get paradoxes like this. I think it's a case of day post manipulation here. Day post manipulation does not affect the day post chronologically, so it doesn't necessarily have to come in last. My guess is that the Joker tried to frame me as being the Joker using an investigation Wolfnagi never got to do because the Joker killed him. Furthermore, we were all for Wolfnagi investigating Lily/Rina yesterday, so it doesn't make any sense that he would change his investigation target to me at the last minute. Well, it's pretty obvious that the Joker did manipulate the day post since this paradox happened.
To clarify: I am not the Joker. The Joker has a day post manipulation skill, and this part of the day post substantiates it.
Even more, look at yesterday's day post:
[quote name='VivaLaDementia' timestamp='1307326348' post='147577']
Daily Post:
Event #2 & #3 have been triggered:
[/quote]
We know that event #2 was the buddy system thing, but what was event #3? My guess is that since event #3 never saw any tangible effect, event #3 is possibly a day post manipulation event.
Edit: Here, have a look at Kamil's posts, which I feel reveal pretty much about which side he is on.
[quote name='Kamil' timestamp='1307245251' post='146731']
Well at least this time the assassins can't have my role sheet...
[/quote]
[quote name='Kamil' timestamp='1307253981' post='146832']
I doubt it will work, but
If your role sheet says the following:
Please contact me.
[/quote]
[quote name='Kamil' timestamp='1307332664' post='147603']
Hmmm... Good to know that I can kill someone, though I see no reason to.
Well I'll decide at some point, most likely not killing him if he becomes active.
[/quote]
[quote name='Kamil' timestamp='1307414701' post='148349']
/facedesk
We are so f^cked.
Please lynch me so we can disobey the Joker without me having to deal with the consequences.
[/quote]
Sounds like reverse psychology to me, since he has contributed ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to the game other than to support Crom, and for that Crom decides to leave him out of the suspect list? What, do I have to buy Crom a diamond ring so he can clear my name? This is shameless subjective favouritism, Crom.
Nooo... In most AGs actions have their chronological order in whatever order allows all actions to take place in the long post without excluding anything. The only time killing seems to take precedence over investigation is if the investigation is private and the investigator can't tell anybody because they're dead at the same time.
In fact, I have NEVER seen a system where night kills inherently take precedence.
In fact, I have NEVER seen a system where night kills inherently take precedence.
[quote name='Kamil' timestamp='1307516277' post='148961']
Nooo... In most AGs actions have their chronological order in whatever order allows all actions to take place in the long post without excluding anything. The only time killing seems to take precedence over investigation is if the investigation is private and the investigator can't tell anybody because they're dead at the same time.
In fact, I have NEVER seen a system where night kills inherently take precedence.
[/quote]
Well, that may be the case for this AG, but I have NEVER seen any host allow paradoxes to happen like this without resorting to either PM time or RNG to see which event takes precedence. Thus I'm convinced it's a Joker ability. The Joker uses mass exposure to instil fear in the citizens in the movie (such as the boat scene), it would make sense that he would have an ability to do so in this AG so as to instil fear and or distrust in the players.
Nooo... In most AGs actions have their chronological order in whatever order allows all actions to take place in the long post without excluding anything. The only time killing seems to take precedence over investigation is if the investigation is private and the investigator can't tell anybody because they're dead at the same time.
In fact, I have NEVER seen a system where night kills inherently take precedence.
[/quote]
Well, that may be the case for this AG, but I have NEVER seen any host allow paradoxes to happen like this without resorting to either PM time or RNG to see which event takes precedence. Thus I'm convinced it's a Joker ability. The Joker uses mass exposure to instil fear in the citizens in the movie (such as the boat scene), it would make sense that he would have an ability to do so in this AG so as to instil fear and or distrust in the players.
[quote name='Zombehs' timestamp='1307519509' post='148972']
Hadriel. Your arguement fails. Look at Day 2 post.... Investigation came first..... Actually look at all the Days. The order is completely random.....
[/quote]
Look at my previous post. I did say that this AG probably doesn't use that system, but there's no way a paradox would be allowed to happen like that.
Hadriel. Your arguement fails. Look at Day 2 post.... Investigation came first..... Actually look at all the Days. The order is completely random.....
[/quote]
Look at my previous post. I did say that this AG probably doesn't use that system, but there's no way a paradox would be allowed to happen like that.
It's not a paradox... If there were a long post it would probably go something like this:
Wolfnagi: OMG there's the Joker I'mma call the chief of Police. "Hello chief? Hadriel is tha Joker!"
Hadriel: Oh shiz, I'm found! Well, die you!
Wolfnagi: Arg! I be dead!
Only that would be a terrible day post. The point being, NO PARADOX.
Wolfnagi: OMG there's the Joker I'mma call the chief of Police. "Hello chief? Hadriel is tha Joker!"
Hadriel: Oh shiz, I'm found! Well, die you!
Wolfnagi: Arg! I be dead!
Only that would be a terrible day post. The point being, NO PARADOX.
[quote name='Kamil' timestamp='1307520514' post='148979']
It's not a paradox... If there were a long post it would probably go something like this:
Wolfnagi: OMG there's the Joker I'mma call the chief of Police. "Hello chief? Hadriel is tha Joker!"
Hadriel: Oh shiz, I'm found! Well, die you!
Wolfnagi: Arg! I be dead!
Only that would be a terrible day post. The point being, NO PARADOX.
[/quote]
On second thoughts, you're right. But, the fact stands that I'm not the Joker. I know that arguing that I'm not the Joker simply because I'm not the Joker won't lead anywhere, but seems like I'm stuck at that venture.
I still call suspicion on event #3, though. The events usually have some impact on the day post. I'm convinced that event #3 was a day post change.
It's not a paradox... If there were a long post it would probably go something like this:
Wolfnagi: OMG there's the Joker I'mma call the chief of Police. "Hello chief? Hadriel is tha Joker!"
Hadriel: Oh shiz, I'm found! Well, die you!
Wolfnagi: Arg! I be dead!
Only that would be a terrible day post. The point being, NO PARADOX.
[/quote]
On second thoughts, you're right. But, the fact stands that I'm not the Joker. I know that arguing that I'm not the Joker simply because I'm not the Joker won't lead anywhere, but seems like I'm stuck at that venture.
I still call suspicion on event #3, though. The events usually have some impact on the day post. I'm convinced that event #3 was a day post change.
Oh, I didn't see the part of one of your previous posts where you accuse me. It is reasonable since I often lament my "generic skilless role" when I am an assassin, but as you can see in the most recent day post (Assuming no lies) my group can only have one Joker thug and there already is one Joker Thug!
Possible point about Event #3, but like I said I don't doubt day posts just because of that.
Well... You had a point until I went to check facts and event #3 was activated on day 1 not day 2.
Possible point about Event #3, but like I said I don't doubt day posts just because of that.
Well... You had a point until I went to check facts and event #3 was activated on day 1 not day 2.
[quote name='Kamil' timestamp='1307521427' post='148989']
Oh, I didn't see the part of one of your previous posts where you accuse me. It is reasonable since I often lament my "generic skilless role" when I am an assassin, but as you can see in the most recent day post (Assuming no lies) my group can only have one Joker thug and there already is one Joker Thug!
Possible point about Event #3, but like I said I don't doubt day posts just because of that.
Well... You had a point until I went to check facts and event #3 was activated on day 1 not day 2.
[/quote]
The day post change probably isn't a single day post-changing event, but a multiple day post-changing event. It's reasonable. Also, it may have been that the event has a delayed effect. I'm not sure which one it is, but it's probably one of the two.
Oh, I didn't see the part of one of your previous posts where you accuse me. It is reasonable since I often lament my "generic skilless role" when I am an assassin, but as you can see in the most recent day post (Assuming no lies) my group can only have one Joker thug and there already is one Joker Thug!
Possible point about Event #3, but like I said I don't doubt day posts just because of that.
Well... You had a point until I went to check facts and event #3 was activated on day 1 not day 2.
[/quote]
The day post change probably isn't a single day post-changing event, but a multiple day post-changing event. It's reasonable. Also, it may have been that the event has a delayed effect. I'm not sure which one it is, but it's probably one of the two.
[quote name='Crom' timestamp='1307500334' post='148897']
I also told you all that voting Emmie was useless, and look at how Rina is jumping the gun going along with Emmie's ridiculous reasoning. I told you they were working together.
[/quote]
its simpel i am not the bad guy so it can only be Lily
thats why i changed my post
not cuz emmie said so =__=
well its up to you to believe me or not
[quote name='Nightmare Gear' timestamp='1307519666' post='148974']
so I'm too decide that my wifey dies!?!
kill her!!
[/quote]
^_______^
I also told you all that voting Emmie was useless, and look at how Rina is jumping the gun going along with Emmie's ridiculous reasoning. I told you they were working together.
[/quote]
its simpel i am not the bad guy so it can only be Lily
thats why i changed my post
not cuz emmie said so =__=
well its up to you to believe me or not
[quote name='Nightmare Gear' timestamp='1307519666' post='148974']
so I'm too decide that my wifey dies!?!
kill her!!
[/quote]
^_______^
[quote name='Rina' timestamp='1307530942' post='149084']
its simpel i am not the bad guy so it can only be Lily
thats why i changed my post
not cuz emmie said so =__=
well its up to you to believe me or not
[/quote]
Actually it is simple. You and Emeralda have had some cryptic discussions which felt like you guys knew more/shared something. Then Em was revealed a baddie, and she even kind of defended you(cant remember the exact post and cant use multiquote on phone).
Also, the joker is revealed as Hadriel and still you are voting for me (so is Hadriel) dunno but thats a tad bit suspicious for me.
its simpel i am not the bad guy so it can only be Lily
thats why i changed my post
not cuz emmie said so =__=
well its up to you to believe me or not
[/quote]
Actually it is simple. You and Emeralda have had some cryptic discussions which felt like you guys knew more/shared something. Then Em was revealed a baddie, and she even kind of defended you(cant remember the exact post and cant use multiquote on phone).
Also, the joker is revealed as Hadriel and still you are voting for me (so is Hadriel) dunno but thats a tad bit suspicious for me.
[quote name='Lily' timestamp='1307532656' post='149100']
Actually it is simple. You and Emeralda have had some cryptic discussions which felt like you guys knew more/shared something. Then Em was revealed a baddie, and she even kind of defended you(cant remember the exact post and cant use multiquote on phone).
Also, the joker is revealed as Hadriel and still you are voting for me (so is Hadriel) dunno but thats a tad bit suspicious for me.
[/quote]
1. I was annoyed that everyone was being fed all that manipulation and liked it. I mean, seriously, you have an end day post manipulating ability and don't even question it? Suuuuure. If anything, you're more of a baddie than me for continuing to feed that bull to others.
2. Like I said, not revealed, but an end day manipulating ability was used on me.
3. Rawr, because Rina had nothing to do with it and some people got the wrong impression. Like, seriously, I used a private investigation day 1 and she the result was she was innocent. Surprise, surprise! I had the real investigating ability! so don't be surprised that I've suspected Wolfnagi when my investigation failed on him day 2.
4. My guess is, the same manipulation ability was used on Hadriel, but feel free to kill him. Still, I'd prefer to see you dead first to prove my point.
Actually it is simple. You and Emeralda have had some cryptic discussions which felt like you guys knew more/shared something. Then Em was revealed a baddie, and she even kind of defended you(cant remember the exact post and cant use multiquote on phone).
Also, the joker is revealed as Hadriel and still you are voting for me (so is Hadriel) dunno but thats a tad bit suspicious for me.
[/quote]
1. I was annoyed that everyone was being fed all that manipulation and liked it. I mean, seriously, you have an end day post manipulating ability and don't even question it? Suuuuure. If anything, you're more of a baddie than me for continuing to feed that bull to others.
2. Like I said, not revealed, but an end day manipulating ability was used on me.
3. Rawr, because Rina had nothing to do with it and some people got the wrong impression. Like, seriously, I used a private investigation day 1 and she the result was she was innocent. Surprise, surprise! I had the real investigating ability! so don't be surprised that I've suspected Wolfnagi when my investigation failed on him day 2.
4. My guess is, the same manipulation ability was used on Hadriel, but feel free to kill him. Still, I'd prefer to see you dead first to prove my point.
Day post altering abilities are not hugely uncommon, but player list altering abilities are. Unless EVERY investigation was falsified (which would include one from before the event Hadriel is trying to claim as the source of manipulation) then you are still the only one in group 1 who could be a joker thug.
And how many public investigation abilities did you see? Ones that would reveal the role to public? No simple AGs ever had those, at least not those I've played before, since it would be the most OP ability in game. Seriously, if I were a baddie, I would have killed Wolf day 1 only because he supposedly had such an ability.
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