The Light Bulb Conspiracy
- Thread starter Kaze Araki
- Start date
It is sustainable in the long run. Its just not sustainable in the way its done today. However, leave it to capitalism to find a way out of it. Once this method becomes unprofitable (and it will soon enough) they will have to look for other ways that are profitable. Capitalism is based on human creativity and our ability to adapt when it is required. Capitalism simply offers the best drive to get people working.
I have to disagree 
but only slightly. Self preservation is the best drive to get people working. Capitalism only forces someone to work just hard enough... not to get fired.
And to those that can... they will creatively exploit the system. And props to them
but only slightly. Self preservation is the best drive to get people working. Capitalism only forces someone to work just hard enough... not to get fired.And to those that can... they will creatively exploit the system. And props to them
I think you and I have a very different opinion of getting fired... You might want to read up a bit more on communism and the definition of getting fired in communism.
IT IS TRUE those that can creatively abuse and exploit the system will be rewarded more in capitalism. But I already mentioned that.
But you say that like you are unaware that this only applies to a very small minority. Almost 90% will only work hard enough not to get fired.
Its kind of like saying... IF you trained your entire life you MIGHT become an athlete. Most of the "reward schemes" are small scale. Yes I used the word Schemes. It is not that easy to have the PERFECT idea at the RIGHT point in time. Its almost like becoming a pro athlete with years of preparation and then running you final race.
The origin of facebook vs the origin of victoria secret is a good example
Dude starts with 18k and a dude starts with 40k
After a year FB is worth nothing and VS is worth 4million
FB holds on to the idea and holds off on making money for 2 more years whilst VS sells his 4 million dollar company thinking HEY 40k to 4million!
2 years later:
FB finally gets their funding and skyrockets to a market share of 12.7m within a monthr. VS is now worth 500 million but the original creator will never see a dime of it.
And I am pretty sure I dont have to continue
about what happened to either company.Thats why im saying IT APPLIES TO A VERY SMALL MINORITY.
I have to disagree but only slightly. Self preservation is the best drive to get people working. Capitalism only forces someone to work just hard enough... not to get fired.
And to those that can... they will creatively exploit the system. And props to them
but only slightly. Self preservation is the best drive to get people working. Capitalism only forces someone to work just hard enough... not to get fired.And to those that can... they will creatively exploit the system. And props to them
Your Facebook vs Victoria Secret story is irrelevant as it has nothing to do with people working just hard enough to not get fired. If anything its an example of someone with a long term vision and someone who only focused on the short run. It demonstrates that companies who have a long term vision tend to perform much better then companies that only look at next year and dont care what happens to their company in 5 years from now.
Nooo of course it doesnt. Hard work is only the source of profit, and capitalists totally dont care about that. Nor are they interested in keeping the skilled workers with them by rewarding them for their efforts.
And yes, you gave me a course in flawed economics back on SSA. You want to demonstrate that Capitalism doesnt work and that it must fall over some time. Sure, go ahead, go prove 200 years of economists wrong. In fact, go prove 200 years of history wrong.
Capitalism will work as long as people are willing to work hard if they get a bigger reward for working harder. Only when that changes, and people suddenly dont care anymore about money or rewards, capitalism will work in some way or the other. No doubt that the extend in which free market and government are mixed will change over time, but there will always be a bit of capitalism. Because it works and because it works better then the alternatives.
EDIT: Money can come from a number of sources. The FED who can print money or the banking system who creates money through the FRB system. Those are the mainstream theories on money creation.
And yes, you gave me a course in flawed economics back on SSA. You want to demonstrate that Capitalism doesnt work and that it must fall over some time. Sure, go ahead, go prove 200 years of economists wrong. In fact, go prove 200 years of history wrong.
Capitalism will work as long as people are willing to work hard if they get a bigger reward for working harder. Only when that changes, and people suddenly dont care anymore about money or rewards, capitalism will work in some way or the other. No doubt that the extend in which free market and government are mixed will change over time, but there will always be a bit of capitalism. Because it works and because it works better then the alternatives.
EDIT: Money can come from a number of sources. The FED who can print money or the banking system who creates money through the FRB system. Those are the mainstream theories on money creation.
OH I just posted a crash course for someone in a different topic.
AND OH MY GOD..@ lex did you just seriously say: Capitalism works? oh gawd... were all doomed.. I mean dude It doesnt.. It really really does not. There are studies into how hard people will really work.. and how hard they claim to work..
Have you ever had to work a 9-5 job for longer than a year? Trust me within 9 months you develop a routine that makes 95% of your work obsolete but do you actually fill in this other 95%? NO OFCOURSE NOT because that would render you obsolete.
If you are too good for your job. They will find someone who or even 2 that will do the job for HALF your salary. Why? Because of capitalism baby!
I am sorry im just being rude here but.. Its nice in theory and its nice to argue.. but thats not how the system works.. It hasnt for the last 200 years. From a theoretical perspective to keep the consumer in debt... IT WORKS LIKE A CHARM... but you realize you will be in debt your entire life unless you own bonds? Not stocks.. BONDS.
Heres my small tutorial for you again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGTBkNJ8ZWI
Posted it in the other one aswell...
Give it a watch noex. Thats your crash course.
AND OH MY GOD..@ lex did you just seriously say: Capitalism works? oh gawd... were all doomed.. I mean dude It doesnt.. It really really does not. There are studies into how hard people will really work.. and how hard they claim to work..
Have you ever had to work a 9-5 job for longer than a year? Trust me within 9 months you develop a routine that makes 95% of your work obsolete but do you actually fill in this other 95%? NO OFCOURSE NOT because that would render you obsolete.
If you are too good for your job. They will find someone who or even 2 that will do the job for HALF your salary. Why? Because of capitalism baby!
I am sorry im just being rude here but.. Its nice in theory and its nice to argue.. but thats not how the system works.. It hasnt for the last 200 years. From a theoretical perspective to keep the consumer in debt... IT WORKS LIKE A CHARM... but you realize you will be in debt your entire life unless you own bonds? Not stocks.. BONDS.
Heres my small tutorial for you again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGTBkNJ8ZWI
Posted it in the other one aswell...
Give it a watch noex. Thats your crash course.
My parents were not political people at all. My parents were just ordinary. They were Jewish immigrants who worked in garment factories when they came here, and then my father became a waiter. You might say he moved up in the world. He went from being a factory worker to being a waiter, and then he became a head waiter. As far as political influence, no. The only influence they had on my life was my observation of their lives. My observation that my father was working very hard, an honest hard-working man. My mother working very hard, raising four sons. And yet, of course, they had nothing to show for it. That is, they were perfect counterpoints to the Horatio Alger myth that if you work hard in this country, you will get somewhere. I think that intensified my feeling about the injustice of an economic system in which there are people all over the country like my parents who work very, very hard and have nothing to show for it.
Howard Zinn
Source: http://globetrotter.berkeley.edu/people/Zinn/zinn-con1.html
Once again, Capitalism really has nothing to do with rewards or hard-works.
Just ask those voluntary slaves in one of those Chinese sweatshops.
Howard Zinn
Source: http://globetrotter.berkeley.edu/people/Zinn/zinn-con1.html
Once again, Capitalism really has nothing to do with rewards or hard-works.
Just ask those voluntary slaves in one of those Chinese sweatshops.
I work, and why would I be in debt? Alright, I admit, I have to take out a loan to pay for my studies. A loan that I will have completely repaid in 20 years. Granted, it costs me about 400-500 a month, but I hope that I get a job that pays a bit more then that. Which should be possible with a university degree.
And well, it does work. If it doesnt work, it would have collapsed and been replaced a long time ago. Since we have been having some form of capitalism ever since the renaissance Id say it works good enough for people to keep having it around. Good enough for most people to keep having it around.
And god I have no idea what work you are talking about. Desk jobs usually dont allow for a routine that makes 95% of your time pointless. Factory work doesnt allow for that either. Give me an example of jobs that can be routinized so much by people that they are essentially doing nothing all day.
You are talking about unskilled labor. The easiest kind which everyone can do. No, indeed, its shitty work and its hard work and you dont get much for it, true. Then again, you can expect people with no education, and who have trouble spelling their own name to run their own company just like that. And really, its fucking stupid to say that Capitalism is not about hard work and rewards by just pointing out sweatshops in developing countries. Now look at the rest of the developed world and see that it does take hard work to get somewhere in capitalism. First you need to go to school, then you need to be good at school, then you get a job, then you have to work hard at said job to make your superiors see that youre good enough to get a promotion, then you have to work harder to get more promotions, etc.
Unskilled labors in sweatshops dont get promotions because even though they work their ass off, they dont have the skills or the knowledge to get promoted to anything more then team leader or something.
And well, it does work. If it doesnt work, it would have collapsed and been replaced a long time ago. Since we have been having some form of capitalism ever since the renaissance Id say it works good enough for people to keep having it around. Good enough for most people to keep having it around.
And god I have no idea what work you are talking about. Desk jobs usually dont allow for a routine that makes 95% of your time pointless. Factory work doesnt allow for that either. Give me an example of jobs that can be routinized so much by people that they are essentially doing nothing all day.
You are talking about unskilled labor. The easiest kind which everyone can do. No, indeed, its shitty work and its hard work and you dont get much for it, true. Then again, you can expect people with no education, and who have trouble spelling their own name to run their own company just like that. And really, its fucking stupid to say that Capitalism is not about hard work and rewards by just pointing out sweatshops in developing countries. Now look at the rest of the developed world and see that it does take hard work to get somewhere in capitalism. First you need to go to school, then you need to be good at school, then you get a job, then you have to work hard at said job to make your superiors see that youre good enough to get a promotion, then you have to work harder to get more promotions, etc.
Unskilled labors in sweatshops dont get promotions because even though they work their ass off, they dont have the skills or the knowledge to get promoted to anything more then team leader or something.
Intestersting.. you havent worked a day in your life... Oh and manual labor.. has no reward system. the one you keep pointing out. I thought you knew that.
So either you watched the youtube vid... and decided ITS ALL BULLSHIT SO I WONT MENTION IT EVER AGAIN.. debt = currency.. OR you watched it... realized HOW UTTERLY WRONG YOU ARE... and said: OK FINE I TOOK A LOAN TO GOTO SCHOOL!
Seriously dude
I am being antagonistic towards you... its because... you're wrong.. and you refuse toaccept whats right infront of you.. you are naieve when it comes to the real world but cry buckets when it comes to how evil humans are at their core.I.... you win.. congratulations. I'll be back later.. lots later.. please learn something!
Oh, delivering mail in my free time or working at a call center isnt work. Right.....
True that I cant get promoted as a mail man. I did get promotions at the call center though. And you bet your ass you got rewards if you were good. For every sale a bonus on your salary, if thats no extra reward then I dont know what is.
No, I took a loan to go to school, then remembered what they taught me at school (hehe, they even admit it in the video) and said, no that video is full of shit. Im gonna trust my economy professor instead of that random guy on Youtube. Still, the debt I have is not because I work. If I never went to uni, and just started working at the call center full time, I wouldnt have needed to take the loan out. And Id still get plenty of money and be without any debt.
When did I cry buckets over how evil humans are at their core?
And yes, instead of saying Im wrong, why dont you prove that Im wrong. At least Kaze tries to persuade me with actual evidence. No, you dont know right or wrong in this case. You just say Im wrong because I dont agree with you, and you convinced yourself that you are right. You dont know why Im wrong or where exactly Im wrong, but Im wrong because I dont say you are right. Self serving logic ftw.
True that I cant get promoted as a mail man. I did get promotions at the call center though. And you bet your ass you got rewards if you were good. For every sale a bonus on your salary, if thats no extra reward then I dont know what is.
No, I took a loan to go to school, then remembered what they taught me at school (hehe, they even admit it in the video) and said, no that video is full of shit. Im gonna trust my economy professor instead of that random guy on Youtube. Still, the debt I have is not because I work. If I never went to uni, and just started working at the call center full time, I wouldnt have needed to take the loan out. And Id still get plenty of money and be without any debt.
Seriously dude I am being antagonistic towards you... its because... you're wrong.. and you refuse toaccept whats right infront of you.. you are naieve when it comes to the real world but cry buckets when it comes to how evil humans are at their core.
I am being antagonistic towards you... its because... you're wrong.. and you refuse toaccept whats right infront of you.. you are naieve when it comes to the real world but cry buckets when it comes to how evil humans are at their core.
And yes, instead of saying Im wrong, why dont you prove that Im wrong. At least Kaze tries to persuade me with actual evidence. No, you dont know right or wrong in this case. You just say Im wrong because I dont agree with you, and you convinced yourself that you are right. You dont know why Im wrong or where exactly Im wrong, but Im wrong because I dont say you are right. Self serving logic ftw.
Yea I tried that... in another topic and you went apeshit on me.. claiming something about how all psychologists got it right etc..
Did you actually ask your economy professor? Cause I'd like for him to come here and explain why he THINKS he's right cause right now im not arguing with you IM ARGUING WITH HIM.
And come on dude you havnt worked. I know you think what youve done might look good on a resume.. but really doesnt. Call centers work on a different premise and so do mail men. Mail men = transport. Call center is round the clock services support OR round the clock serviced advertising.. and a bit of sales.
Neither constitute as a 9-5 dayjob. But hey what do I know. I already explained the difference before and you said I was
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3L6i5AwVAbs
I am done here.
And this is where it came from: http://www.infiniteunknown.net/2010/05/25/renaissance-20-lesson-2-revisiting-economics-101-debt/
“The few who understand the system, will either be so interested in its profits, or so dependent on its favours that there will be no opposition from that class, while on the other hand, the great body of the people mentally incapable of comprehending the tremendous advantage that capital derives from the system, will bear its burdens without complaint, and perhaps without even suspecting that the system is inimical to their interests.” - John Sherman – Protege of the Rothschild banking family
Give me the control of a country's money supply and I care not who makes the laws", A.M. Rothschild.
"The best way to rob a bank is to own one"
http://www.silverbearcafe.com/private/04.09/economics101.html
You gave me your opinion on why you were right.
Ask him what? If he thinks the Fed is evil? Or the thing about the bonds? And yes, Im sure my Economy professor is gonna come to this site just so he can tell you that the youtube vid was full of nonsense.
Oh Ive also worked in magazine as an order picker and in an electronics store. That was all day. But true, delivering mail and call center work is just a few hours a day. Not a 9-5 job. However, should that matter when it comes to the issue of debt? Or do you only get debt if you work for a certain amount of time for a certain sort of company?
Ask him what? If he thinks the Fed is evil? Or the thing about the bonds? And yes, Im sure my Economy professor is gonna come to this site just so he can tell you that the youtube vid was full of nonsense.
Oh Ive also worked in magazine as an order picker and in an electronics store. That was all day. But true, delivering mail and call center work is just a few hours a day. Not a 9-5 job. However, should that matter when it comes to the issue of debt? Or do you only get debt if you work for a certain amount of time for a certain sort of company?