The Light Bulb Conspiracy

[Kaze Araki]

[YOUTUBE]I5DCwN28y8o[/YOUTUBE]​

 

[Canabary]

Great documentary Kaze. Very interesting. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Zero Phoenix]

I wasn't going to sit here and watch an hourlong documentary so if you please, in summation, what would you have us discuss?

 

[Core]

Its about consumerism.. In the simplest definition its about planned obsolescence: The creation of products that are inherently short in lifespan so a new one must be bought.

 

[noex1337]

It works, no? Ask car companies. Those things have more or less a use by meter.

 

[Core]

Well thefull thing is about becoming aware of it... but they cant do anything against it because the economy as it is now will collapse

 

[Zero Phoenix]

Its about consumerism.. In the simplest definition its about planned obsolescence: The creation of products that are inherently short in lifespan so a new one must be bought.

Thank you. ;hello;

It works, no? Ask car companies. Those things have more or less a use by meter.

Doesn't it actually cost in the long run though. I'll jump industries here but look at Apple. They spend hundreds of millions developing products, consumers buy it, only to find their shit obsolete in a month. Of course Apple makes a lot of money but they have to spend more money to develop more products, market, and sell them to turn a profit. A profit that comes at an increasing price to the consume. Does the system work?

Well thefull thing is about becoming aware of it... but they cant do anything against it because the economy as it is now will collapse

All right I'll approve. I'd like to hear your thoughts in this discussion:
http://muffin.g2anime.net/showthread.php?t=6817

Try to avoid the east versus west pitfalls in this discussion. I'm not being a smartass but that's more or less what the discussion turned into for three weeks or so.

 

[noex1337]

Doesn't it actually cost in the long run though. I'll jump industries here but look at Apple. They spend hundreds of millions developing products, consumers buy it, only to find their shit obsolete in a month. Of course Apple makes a lot of money but they have to spend more money to develop more products, market, and sell them to turn a profit. A profit that comes at an increasing price to the consume. Does the system work?

You really have no idea how cheap these things are to produce. Realistically speaking, I doubt there's little more than a couple firmware changes and a new package every time they make a new iPhone.

 

[Core]

Thank you. ;hello;





Doesn't it actually cost in the long run though. I'll jump industries here but look at Apple. They spend hundreds of millions developing products, consumers buy it, only to find their shit obsolete in a month. Of course Apple makes a lot of money but they have to spend more money to develop more products, market, and sell them to turn a profit. A profit that comes at an increasing price to the consume. Does the system work?





All right I'll approve. I'd like to hear your thoughts in this discussion:
http://muffin.g2anime.net/showthread.php?t=6817

Try to avoid the east versus west pitfalls in this discussion. I'm not being a smartass but that's more or less what the discussion turned into for three weeks or so.

Sorry but theres no fucking way I will participate in a discussion about US of A

 

[Canabary]

You really have no idea how cheap these things are to produce. Realistically speaking, I doubt there's little more than a couple firmware changes and a new package every time they make a new iPhone.

I would say the main issue isn't down to production cost or the "cost" for the consumer. As the documentary pointed out, the current trend of consumerism and planned obsolescence is unsustainable for the planet and for humanity. It has gotten so far that we're now using entire countries as our waste bins (according to the documentary) which are filling up with non degradable waste wreaking havoc on the Eco-system of these countries. We, the consumer, will afford the trend for as long as we have the money for it, the planet and the rest of the world will not however.

 

[Zero Phoenix]

Sorry but theres no fucking way I will participate in a discussion about US of A

Darn. I wanted to hear your take on the Debt Ceiling.

 

[Core]

I would say the main issue isn't down to production cost or the "cost" for the consumer. As the documentary pointed out, the current trend of consumerism and planned obsolescence is unsustainable for the planet and for humanity. It has gotten so far that we're now using entire countries as our waste bins (according to the documentary) which are filling up with non degradable waste wreaking havoc on the Eco-system of these countries. We, the consumer, will afford the trend for as long as we have the money for it, the planet and the rest of the world will not however.

The market already crashed on several of these points:
Bank lending inflation(current crysis)
The Great depression (lack of consumerism lead to lack of iundustry... lead to lack of trade lead to lack of jobs.. major inflation... Its pretty much circular)

 

[Zero Phoenix]

The market already crashed on several of these points:
Bank lending inflation(current crysis)
The Great depression (lack of consumerism lead to lack of iundustry... lead to lack of trade lead to lack of jobs.. major inflation... Its pretty much circular)

I'd hate to hit you with a loaded question but do you see a way out? From your pov and your opinion, is there a solution? Everytime I turn on a T.V. people are losing their damn minds. I think there's a solution we just need to find it.

You can't solve money problems by throwing more money at it right. ;o.o;

 

[Canabary]

The market already crashed on several of these points:
Bank lending inflation(current crysis)
The Great depression (lack of consumerism lead to lack of iundustry... lead to lack of trade lead to lack of jobs.. major inflation... Its pretty much circular)

I struggle to see how Banks attempting to make money by "cheating" the lending system has anything to do with planned obselescence? However when it comes to the Great Depression you are right, but the system we are using today is simply not sustainable in the long run. Neither for the consumer market, nor for the planet. At some point the constant growth wil stop in one way or the other, and when they do things will get really really bad.

You can't solve money problems by throwing more money at it right. ;o.o;

Quoted for Truth.

 

[Core]

I'd hate to hit you with a loaded question but do you see a way out? From your pov and your opinion, is there a solution? Everytime I turn on a T.V. people are losing their damn minds. I think there's a solution we just need to find it.

You can't solve money problems by throwing more money at it right. ;o.o;

Actually in this scenario thats EXACTLY what you do!

Whether the money actually exists or not is less important.

Yes people are losing there minds in certain sectors... but.. intellectual... software based markets did not even suffer in the tiniest for instance.

First the status quo needs to be stabilized to a level where the general public can feel safe again... THEN the system needs to be changed.. it will happen fast and it will happen without warning...

If history teaches us anything its that all the talks on the media and crap are just that inflated versions of the truth to re-acquire faith in the current system... The moment people feel safe and secure again.. expect swooping changes...

The problem is that might not happen for the next 10-50 years... The current situation is worse then in the 30's

But what do I know I am no economist.. Money however is... just a word Banks need money... Powerplants need fossil fuels(for the most part) Just see money in this case.. as a raw material... and itll become slightly more obvious

 

[Core]

I struggle to see how Banks attempting to make money by "cheating" the lending system has anything to do with planned obselescence? However when it comes to the Great Depression you are right, but the system we are using today is simply not sustainable in the long run. Neither for the consumer market, nor for the planet. At some point the constant growth wil stop in one way or the other, and when they do things will get really really bad.

OH uhm thats not that difficult lemme try and compact it into a few sentences... A bank lends money to a country or instance or even person and counts the money that they will receive as solid monetary goods...

Therefore if they lend.. it will be consumed again.. meaning that the system went round and round...

People lend money... spend money... eventually pay back money...

Banks get their money back which they have already spent.. on credit to another in order to loan more money... in return the credit lent.. becomes consumerism spent...

So its circular... and its been happening for 80 years... Clinton did his best to bandaid it.. but since the carter administration... everyone that I KNOW has been aware that it was going to crash 2002-2012 and was prepared for it..

Its the same principle as the great depression.. just on a less... TANGIBLE scale i think?

Does that clarify or am I just too tired lol

 

[Canabary]

Actually in this scenario thats EXACTLY what you do!

Whether the money actually exists or not is less important.

Yes people are losing there minds in certain sectors... but.. intellectual... software based markets did not even suffer in the tiniest for instance.

First the status quo needs to be stabilized to a level where the general public can feel safe again... THEN the system needs to be changed.. it will happen fast and it will happen without warning...

If history teaches us anything its that all the talks on the media and crap are just that inflated versions of the truth to re-acquire faith in the current system... The moment people feel safe and secure again.. expect swooping changes...

The problem is that might not happen for the next 10-50 years... The current situation is worse then in the 30's

But what do I know I am no economist.. Money however is... just a word Banks need money... Powerplants need fossil fuels(for the most part) Just see money in this case.. as a raw material... and itll become slightly more obvious

Throwing more money at it will work for the short term, yes. However if you want to solve the problem, the actual problem, increasing the magnitude of the potentially devestating effects doesn't really seem like the best option to me.

 

[Core]

Throwing more money at it will work for the short term, yes. However if you want to solve the problem, the actual problem, increasing the magnitude of the potentially devestating effects doesn't really seem like the best option to me.

You're right but the system itself requires DRASTIC interception.. but you cant do that when the people dont believe in the system... because if do it then... think...1307 friday oktober 13th... A man.. a king..but A man decided to revolt against those he was indebted to.. but then.. on a global scale.


I will not say the system is good at all.. ITS A SYSTYEM THAT IS EASY TO EXPLOIT.. I do it on a daily basis.. my family.. and money.. and income.. yea thats pretty much been through the roof since the start of the crash.. My area was uneffected.. completely.. and business has been... booming.
I do not on an ethical standpoint claim superiority there but.. Because it is exploitable... It needs to be changed to a more stable one... FOR NOW we have no choice... we need to throw more money at it... Treat the illness before you CURE the disease. Thats how they give patients what... more time

 

[-lexus-]

You can't solve money problems by throwing more money at it right. ;o.o;

Thats what Keynes said, and it worked pretty well for a few decades. Coincidentally also the booming decades of the past century. Then the Chicago school came around, convinced everything it wasnt working at all while in reality only a little thing wasnt working and OPEC was screwing with everyone and since then its been going from one crisis to the next.

Solution? Sure, there are solutions, but it requires hard choices and the political strength of most western governments are simply to strained by populist to make the hard decisions necessary.

 

[Core]

Thats what Keynes said, and it worked pretty well for a few decades. Coincidentally also the booming decades of the past century. Then the Chicago school came around, convinced everything it wasnt working at all while in reality only a little thing wasnt working and OPEC was screwing with everyone and since then its been going from one crisis to the next.

Solution? Sure, there are solutions, but it requires hard choices and the political strength of most western governments are simply to strained by populist to make the hard decisions necessary.

There is the issue that simply creating jobs is a massive money sink aswell as social services and retirement funds.. but lets not get into that.