SlutWalk

#61
Not every country has the 2nd amendment in place. In my region, carrying what we call as white arms(daggers, swords, nunchuks and etc) is considered a crime, let alone a firearm. Even if you are not the assailant, you will be punished for, yes, defending yourself with a weapon.
That's really the fault or choice the society itself, innit? Not so much the fault of the people. If they want their own self protection, they can push harder for laws providing it, but instead they are content to allow the society to try and protect them and completely enforce order and stop crime - which again I state is logistically impossible to truly defeat unless people are defending themselves.

Either that, or you live in a repressive dictatorship or authoritarian state that keeps people unarmed to enforce it's power. In which case it's the government's fault.

It can really only be one of two.
 
#62
Nah, having arms on you more or less promotes violence.

And yeah, lets protest against a statement aimed to keep someone safe. I support the statement 100%

And lol, I'm gonna carry around a gun and if anyone eye's at me in a wierd manner I'll shoot them.

Not sure if you think it's bandwagon but Bowling for Columbine was pretty funny.
 
#63
Nah, having arms on you more or less promotes violence.

And yeah, lets protest against a statement aimed to keep someone safe. I support the statement 100%

And lol, I'm gonna carry around a gun and if anyone eye's at me in a wierd manner I'll shoot them.

Not sure if you think it's bandwagon but Bowling for Columbine was pretty funny.
That's a pretty big misconception. I am not on the right of the political spectrum, but that's some pretty big leftist propaganda you're spouting. Logistically, keeping guns out of every law abiding citizen's hands and preventing people from defending themselves will only empower these criminals and maniacs more as an even larger black market will form in an already volatile and violent black market. No matter what you do to restrict the right of private citizens to defend themselves so the government can "protect them," the black market and the criminal elements will always be a step ahead. On top of this, private citizens being armed allow the public at large to defend themselves against the encroachment of tyranny and most of the founding fathers in the USA believed that all the citizenry should be armed to keep the will of tyrants and corruption of politics in check so that society does not lose it's freedoms. More weapons does not promote more violence, it in fact equalizes the public and promotes caution as well as respect.

It is logistically impossible to expect the public government to protect everyone and the blind idealism that you're spouting is inaccurate propaganda. It may be aimed to keep people safe, but that does not mean it's logistically it's possible and that it actually does what it's supposed to. On top of that, the violent behavior you're referencing isn't the behavior of most of the already existing gun owners in the country who pride themselves on their responsibility and self defense. It is not the behavior of the gun community at large.
 

Manga Wolf

Lazy and who cares
#65
LOL the self defense with arms is just crap, i agree with raz

guns are mainly use for the intent to kill
if you want to be safe, would you rather have the scenario were everyone had a gun or were no one had a gun
i'd take the second, a fist fight is better than a gun fight

and as for this rape topic i agree with hadriel in the sense responsibility on both parts
if you dressed like a slut your gonna attract attention simple as that
sure ppl have a right to dress how they want to an extent but still doesn't mean you dress however

lets take another example of a crime like a mugging
If a robber sees a man in normal clothes like jeans and shirt and another guy in a suit
who is he more likely to rob? ... obviously the guy in the suit
same way if your dressed in skimpy clothes your gonna attract that attention
its just simple logic
 
#66
Agreed with Rokib.
Although the one thing that Cephal says brings up a point. The people who will be attempting crime will probably be armed. So is it your duty to be armed too? If a woman presents herself in skimpy clothing, whereas another women dresses like a professional, these rapists will likely aim for the one dressed in skimpy clothing.

One thing I'm lol-ing about is that these women are protesting to wear slutty clothes. lol
 

Zero Phoenix

The Second Coming of Hazama
#67
:shrug: I wasn't going to bother with this discussion but after reading some of the posts...


LOL the self defense with arms is just crap, i agree with raz
guns are mainly use for the intent to kill
if you want to be safe, would you rather have the scenario were everyone had a gun or were no one had a gun
i'd take the second, a fist fight is better than a gun fight

Thats your argument? I think you're forgetting that whether guns are illegal or not, they will always find their way into the hands of criminals. And I'm sure you might say something like, well if guns were illegal it would be harder for criminals to get them and they would be less likely to commit crimes. Irrelevant. Supply and demand dominates all things in this system because money dominates all things in this system. If a criminal needs a gun to rob a bank, he's going to get as many guns as he needs because the laws are meaningless before, what's that? Money. Also, the only reason you boast about wanting to decide things with your fists rather than a gun is because you're looking at this way to one-sidedly. If someone is about to rob you they might be bigger than, they might have a knife, a chain, a taser, you really don't know what they have. I'm guessing if someone did break into your house you wouldn't be thinking about a round of Street Fighter. You'd be looking for a gun so you could bust a cap in that ass. Why? Because that's how logical people think.



and as for this rape topic i agree with hadriel in the sense responsibility on both parts
if you dressed like a slut your gonna attract attention simple as that
Both you and Hadriel bought the farm on this one. I'm going to disagree with both of you and with good reason. There are a number of aboriginal (spelling) tribes where the women are either topless or completely nude. While rapes do occur they're not more likely to happen in societies where women are almost always half-naked than they are to occur in socities where ample clothing is the soup de jure. Not only that but yeah, we all joking say well shit she had it coming dressing like that. But I disagree. If I'm driving a Porsche to work and back does that mean I deserve to have to stolen simply because some dumbass can see me driving it? If I just went to an ATM machine do I automatically take some responsibility for some guy robbing me? I think not.


lets take another example of a crime like a mugging
If a robber sees a man in normal clothes like jeans and shirt and another guy in a suit
who is he more likely to rob? ... obviously the guy in the suit
same way if your dressed in skimpy clothes your gonna attract that attention
its just simple logic
You obviously don't live in America. It doesn't matter how a person is dressed over here. They're going to get robbed. Why? Because if a criminal wants to rob someone they're not going to care what they're dressed like. Ten years ago yes, the guy in the suit would be a likely target. But no everyone's ass is up for grabs. My apologies. Given the state of this discussion and the topic at hand I did not mean to make light of the issue of rape. Those of you who laughed at my poor selection of words shame on you. Anyway in the same vein as a criminal robbing someone, a pervert who really wants to get his rape on isn't going to care about how a woman is dressed. He's going to give it to her if she's dressed like a bag laddy or a Victoria's Secret model. I mean people get serious. Have you seen what "most" rape victims look like? I'm not trying to be that guy but because it's hard for me to take this seriously let's get real!! Most women who claim to be victims of rape are 5's and 6's. I'm sorry if that offends people but the fact is perverts who do this shit really don't care what the woman looks like or how she is dressed. The average pervert just wants it and if they don't care how the victim in question looks, they probably aren't going to care what they're dressed like. Yeah, I said it.



Agreed with Rokib. Although the one thing that Cephal says brings up a point. The people who will be attempting crime will probably be armed. So is it your duty to be armed too? If a woman presents herself in skimpy clothing, whereas another women dresses like a professional, these rapists will likely aim for the one dressed in skimpy clothing.
The rapist is going to go after the easier target. If they see a woman who is a 4 out of 10, dressed in overalls, bald, and alone in a back alley she's going to get raped. They're not going to go after the supermodel who is walking to her car with 10 other people. Rapists, like robbers, serial killers, pedophiles, all predators choose their targets based on ease.
 

Arachna

Spider
Staff member
#68
I have to say i agree with you ..on everything you said. <.< or to say..i said the same thing on the page before. <.<

(see..we do agree on some things)


Anyway...What does Kaze think about all of the ...things. Said in here?
 

Manga Wolf

Lazy and who cares
#69
Zero... your using very specific examples to back you point while i chose general ones which were to explain the logic
and LOL i'm sure if we were to compare gun crime between countries which allow guns and which don't i'd think we see a big difference
and dont give me that lame argument of 'oh you dont live in america'
fact of the matter is apperances to do matter and if your dressed slutty your gonna attract the attention...simple
and as for your car example, my point is if you make yourself a target you gotta deal with it, not saying you deserve it
and as for the tribe thing... really... your gonna use that as an example to back your point... xD
are you just trying to argue against us for the sake of it?

I couldnt be bothered to read the whole thing you wrote tbh

bla bla bla your bringing other factors like
what if theres a woman alone in an ally way ...well duh there gonna attack her
if your gonna be like that, lets just say women shouldnt go out at dark or in ally or be alone... you wanna add more factors and stuff?
wait if shes 400pounds and alone in an ally =O those rapist would do anything right

what if i'm taking money from an ATM... really did i say you deserve it, point is your gonna be targeted
 

Core

Fascinating...
#71
In the initial analysis, this scenario is highly reminiscent of one I have been pondering about lately:
You have a bank, and a guard is hired to keep watch over it. If the bank is robbed, is it the robber's fault for robbing the bank, or is it the guard's fault for not doing his job properly?

My thesis is this: Both parties have a mutual responsibility to prevent the crime of rape from occuring. The would-be rapist is responsible for keeping his desires under control, and the victim is responsible for behaving in a manner that does not instigate crime. Sanguinetti's advice is true, but it is only a one-sided approach. Apart from women being responsible for dressing appropriately so as not to attract potential rapists, the men are responsible for keeping their urges to rape in check as well.

However, the blame each party gets in the case of a real rape should not be equal. The woman should not be blamed as much, or even at all, because, although what Sanguinetti says is partially true, not all men will rape once they see a woman dressing like a slut, so his point is invalidated.

So yep, the most nuanced answer would be that both parties have a mutual responsibility to prevent crime from occuring.

One tiny little thing about your deductive reasoning i disagree with...
You start the Scenario with "You have a bank". From that the only conclusion I can reach is that: It is your responsibility. It is your bank and it is your responsibility to make sure it does not get robbed IF you wish to keep the contents of said bank, "pristine".

You can blame the guard you put in the bank or the bankrobber or even the socio-economical climate that forced these poor poor bankrobbers to require money! But... Ultimately the blame is on you for failing to protect what is dear to you.

Herein lies the problem x.x Rape is such a specific offense that in most circles is classed above torture and death but underneath necro and pedo.
And because everyone involved in things like that it hard to equate it to loss of property. Therefore I must say that the scenario you presented is incomplete.

I honestly do not understand why someone must be blamed. A crime has been committed, guy gets caught, done deal right?

I do not agree that victims should be blamed BUT there have also been plenty of cases where people would act victimized when they actually werent back when the police didnt require more then circumstantial evidence.

Whether or not you are or have been affected by rape; This much should be certain. If you want to protect yourself. Take the necessary steps to prepare for if the situation ever occurs and do what you can against it. Even if you fail then... you cant blame yourself.

Premeditated rape is an act of violence. Continuing a sexual act without consent... While indirectly linked to rape is called non consensual sex.
Since the 2 are classed completely different from one another. They should also be treated as such.
To the victim itself it does not matter which of the 2 it is. It is all the same all the time. Thats not how the system works though...

So now Can women avoid situations where the result non consensual by dressing differently, acting differently and remaining sober?
Yes.
Can any human avoid being raped?
No.

Blame fall where they may but The difference between the 2 is very important from a judicial standpoint.