Naruto v. Luffy v. Ichigo
- Thread starter Buried Under Ice
- Start date
[quote name='Insane D Azn']Truth is, we don't actually know which is faster, G2 or bankai Ichigo, but think of it this way. Correct me if I'm wrong, but in terms of speed, Normal Ichigo< Bankai Ichigo < Hollow Ichigo < FGT Ichigo
Whereas Normal Luffy < G2 Luffy < ???
It's true Luffy has gotten a LOT faster after the timeskip, but the way I see it Ichigo is still faster.
Where the heck did you get these mach ratings anyway? They make no sense at all, and it seems to me they are purely based upon your opinion.[/QUOTE]
And my opinions are based on
1 the average speed of fodder characters
2 the number of main characters
3 what they usually fight and how these opponents compare to each other
4 the average strength of main villains
5 the most intelligent people in their verses and what they have accomplished
they are not random and fanbased.
[quote name='Insane D Azn']You say people of the Bleach verse aren't that durable? How about Ichigo in the majority of his fights? He gets beaten to a bloody pulp in most of his fights, yet still gets back up and beats him (don't get me wrong, I hate this, but it's true after all. Kubo overpowers his characters, and it's not just the way they are depicted.)[/QUOTE]
i said majority, this majority does not include the likes of Ichigo, Aizen, Byakuya, Kenpachi and most of the other captains.
[quote name='Insane D Azn']Their reaction time is not poor at all, most of the time they are just caught off guard when the opponent gets a ridiculously powerful speed boost. Most of the characters in Bleach are strong, and the combat style of Bleach is heavily dependent on speed, whereas in OP the emphasis of speed isn't big enough (e.g. Whitebeard, Shiki aren't very fast, yet flipping powerful)[/QUOTE]
I disagree with WB not being fast, he was able to keep up and catch Akainu and everyone that is above V.A. level in one piece knows soru and haki.
[quote name='Insane D Azn']You don't seem to understand the concept of "soloing" a whole verse. I don't know if you said it out of the moment or what. But Perona?! This just sounds like trolling now. Aizen alone could own her (she is nowhere near as fast as any of the characters in Bleach, in fact)
I'm still not convinced any character in OP could solo the bleachverse, but thinking Kizaru or are the closest out of the ones you mentioned, and maybe also BB, but the others don't stand a chance. Not even WB. Just put any of them against Aizen and they would get owned, that's how overpowered he is. Seriously.[/QUOTE]
how exactly are they going to own Enel who could simply call an El Thor on them (from an island wide radius)? And if he brings in the Ark Maxim and create a Raigou, how on earth are they going to stop an island destroying attack? How are they even going to attack a Logia user who can turn intangible? None of their attacks are even going to hit Enel, not to mention that he's as fast as lightning and can predict your attacks and know where exactly you are (so no after image duplicates or decoys are going to work). Plus don't forget this guy to revive his own heart basically giving him false immortality. Don't forget the lightning speed in the mix
What's stopping WB from just flipping the island on them? The guy is extremely durable, survivng sworld slashes, bullets, stabs, cannonballs. Not to mention WB has Haki as well.
Kizaru shoots a lazer through each of their heads and is lightspeed when travelling, not to mention he's a logia
Kuma can simply nuke them with the Ursus Bomb or teleport them
Marco can regen from any attack and he's not second in command for nothing
Moria can steal shadows from right under people, this and if they were in the day time = victory. He was able to steal a whole island worth of shadows in less than a min. Not to mention that he can use dead corpses and insert shadows in them
Peron yea i admit that it was for the lulz but if you think about it, it's not as absurd as you think, those hollows of hers can render people's will to fight completely (this is assuming that she preped before and hid her real body in a safe location)
[quote name='Insane D Azn']Oh yeah, and I think we're going slightly off-topic here... It's my fault for talking about the verses in the first place, so my bad[/QUOTE]
No problem man, if you have disagreements with something it's best to say them and let them come to a conclusion :grin:
[quote name='Insane D Azn']This is true, but that doesn't mean anything. We're talking about how strong the characters are, not how well they can accomplish something.[/QUOTE]
It does if you think about it. It shows how well a character can use his resources to achieve a goal as well as how they adapt to on coming problems to still achieve those goals
[quote name='Insane D Azn']Again, I am not convinced Luffy can outmatch Ichigo in speed. If you can convince me, I will admit it, but for now, I can't.[/QUOTE]
http://hypertextbook.com/facts/1999/MariaPereyra.shtml
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casual dodging of bullets = an at least 1000 m/s in reaction time alone putting him at least in the supersonic range for sure even at base stage.
[YOUTUBE]<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/QaPtTh__34E?version=3"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/QaPtTh__34E?version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="390"></object>[/YOUTUBE]
and that's a base luffy fighting against a hypersonic soru user at base level (you can tell it's hyper sonic due to the shock layer left by Blueno (the little air shockwaves that are left after he moves)
and now Luffy going into high hypersonic using Gear Second
[YOUTUBE]<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Ch5HnnTzZSY?version=3"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Ch5HnnTzZSY?version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="390"></object>[/YOUTUBE]
note the multiple entropy layers around his arms and body suggesting that he is moving at high hypersonic range (mach 10 and above)
Ichigo's bankai
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note what byakuya says, that he "lost sight of him" meaning Ichigo is at least faster than the eye can see (200mph) but seeing as he's able to use some after images he's is at least in the supersonic range. Ichigo is definitely in the hypersonic range in FGT seen by the entropy layer in his fights but it's not in the high hypersonic range since the layer does not envelope his body like what we have seen for Luffy.
Thus from what i have seen Luffy is > Ichigo in speed
sorry for the late reply man, i had to search up some of these videos and sites
Whereas Normal Luffy < G2 Luffy < ???
It's true Luffy has gotten a LOT faster after the timeskip, but the way I see it Ichigo is still faster.
Where the heck did you get these mach ratings anyway? They make no sense at all, and it seems to me they are purely based upon your opinion.[/QUOTE]
And my opinions are based on
1 the average speed of fodder characters
2 the number of main characters
3 what they usually fight and how these opponents compare to each other
4 the average strength of main villains
5 the most intelligent people in their verses and what they have accomplished
they are not random and fanbased.
[quote name='Insane D Azn']You say people of the Bleach verse aren't that durable? How about Ichigo in the majority of his fights? He gets beaten to a bloody pulp in most of his fights, yet still gets back up and beats him (don't get me wrong, I hate this, but it's true after all. Kubo overpowers his characters, and it's not just the way they are depicted.)[/QUOTE]
i said majority, this majority does not include the likes of Ichigo, Aizen, Byakuya, Kenpachi and most of the other captains.
[quote name='Insane D Azn']Their reaction time is not poor at all, most of the time they are just caught off guard when the opponent gets a ridiculously powerful speed boost. Most of the characters in Bleach are strong, and the combat style of Bleach is heavily dependent on speed, whereas in OP the emphasis of speed isn't big enough (e.g. Whitebeard, Shiki aren't very fast, yet flipping powerful)[/QUOTE]
I disagree with WB not being fast, he was able to keep up and catch Akainu and everyone that is above V.A. level in one piece knows soru and haki.
[quote name='Insane D Azn']You don't seem to understand the concept of "soloing" a whole verse. I don't know if you said it out of the moment or what. But Perona?! This just sounds like trolling now. Aizen alone could own her (she is nowhere near as fast as any of the characters in Bleach, in fact)
I'm still not convinced any character in OP could solo the bleachverse, but thinking Kizaru or are the closest out of the ones you mentioned, and maybe also BB, but the others don't stand a chance. Not even WB. Just put any of them against Aizen and they would get owned, that's how overpowered he is. Seriously.[/QUOTE]
how exactly are they going to own Enel who could simply call an El Thor on them (from an island wide radius)? And if he brings in the Ark Maxim and create a Raigou, how on earth are they going to stop an island destroying attack? How are they even going to attack a Logia user who can turn intangible? None of their attacks are even going to hit Enel, not to mention that he's as fast as lightning and can predict your attacks and know where exactly you are (so no after image duplicates or decoys are going to work). Plus don't forget this guy to revive his own heart basically giving him false immortality. Don't forget the lightning speed in the mix
What's stopping WB from just flipping the island on them? The guy is extremely durable, survivng sworld slashes, bullets, stabs, cannonballs. Not to mention WB has Haki as well.
Kizaru shoots a lazer through each of their heads and is lightspeed when travelling, not to mention he's a logia
Kuma can simply nuke them with the Ursus Bomb or teleport them
Marco can regen from any attack and he's not second in command for nothing
Moria can steal shadows from right under people, this and if they were in the day time = victory. He was able to steal a whole island worth of shadows in less than a min. Not to mention that he can use dead corpses and insert shadows in them
Peron yea i admit that it was for the lulz but if you think about it, it's not as absurd as you think, those hollows of hers can render people's will to fight completely (this is assuming that she preped before and hid her real body in a safe location)
[quote name='Insane D Azn']Oh yeah, and I think we're going slightly off-topic here... It's my fault for talking about the verses in the first place, so my bad[/QUOTE]
No problem man, if you have disagreements with something it's best to say them and let them come to a conclusion :grin:
[quote name='Insane D Azn']This is true, but that doesn't mean anything. We're talking about how strong the characters are, not how well they can accomplish something.[/QUOTE]
It does if you think about it. It shows how well a character can use his resources to achieve a goal as well as how they adapt to on coming problems to still achieve those goals
[quote name='Insane D Azn']Again, I am not convinced Luffy can outmatch Ichigo in speed. If you can convince me, I will admit it, but for now, I can't.[/QUOTE]
http://hypertextbook.com/facts/1999/MariaPereyra.shtml
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casual dodging of bullets = an at least 1000 m/s in reaction time alone putting him at least in the supersonic range for sure even at base stage.
[YOUTUBE]<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/QaPtTh__34E?version=3"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/QaPtTh__34E?version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="390"></object>[/YOUTUBE]
and that's a base luffy fighting against a hypersonic soru user at base level (you can tell it's hyper sonic due to the shock layer left by Blueno (the little air shockwaves that are left after he moves)
and now Luffy going into high hypersonic using Gear Second
[YOUTUBE]<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Ch5HnnTzZSY?version=3"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Ch5HnnTzZSY?version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="390"></object>[/YOUTUBE]
note the multiple entropy layers around his arms and body suggesting that he is moving at high hypersonic range (mach 10 and above)
Ichigo's bankai
[YOUTUBE]<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/lQNu5_C1I5s?version=3"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/lQNu5_C1I5s?version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="390"></object>[/YOUTUBE]
note what byakuya says, that he "lost sight of him" meaning Ichigo is at least faster than the eye can see (200mph) but seeing as he's able to use some after images he's is at least in the supersonic range. Ichigo is definitely in the hypersonic range in FGT seen by the entropy layer in his fights but it's not in the high hypersonic range since the layer does not envelope his body like what we have seen for Luffy.
Thus from what i have seen Luffy is > Ichigo in speed
sorry for the late reply man, i had to search up some of these videos and sites
[quote name='noex1337']Since it's faster, I assume it can't go as far.
That, and luffy has never attacked anyone anyway near that far away. That's only him stretching[/QUOTE]
Indeed faster stretching time means nearer range, but it's unrelated to G2 itself.
Elephant Gun and Ogon Pistol+Ogon Botan shown otherwise.
[quote name='Amulet Shade']I meant the power when the fist flies toward the target, not when he pulls back to build it up.[/QUOTE]
And that's what i mean too.
Please stretch rubberband to your arm. which one hurt more, stretched longer or nearer.
That, and luffy has never attacked anyone anyway near that far away. That's only him stretching[/QUOTE]
Indeed faster stretching time means nearer range, but it's unrelated to G2 itself.
Elephant Gun and Ogon Pistol+Ogon Botan shown otherwise.
[quote name='Amulet Shade']I meant the power when the fist flies toward the target, not when he pulls back to build it up.[/QUOTE]
And that's what i mean too.
Please stretch rubberband to your arm. which one hurt more, stretched longer or nearer.
Thank you very much Zoro, I was actually hoping you would prove me wrong, cos I liked to believe that Luffy was both faster than Ichigo and could beat him in a fight. You've pretty much convinced me there mate ;D
[quote name='Roronoa Zoro']I disagree with WB not being fast, he was able to keep up and catch Akainu and everyone that is above V.A. level in one piece knows soru and haki.[/QUOTE]
But do you think WB is in the super/hypersonic range?? And I'm not talking about his reaction time, but his speed. I can't actually remember a scene in which he moved extremely fast, although I would assume he can. One disadvantage for him though would be his illness and his old age.
[quote name='Roronoa Zoro']how exactly are they going to own Enel who could simply call an El Thor on them (from an island wide radius)? And if he brings in the Ark Maxim and create a Raigou, how on earth are they going to stop an island destroying attack? How are they even going to attack a Logia user who can turn intangible? None of their attacks are even going to hit Enel, not to mention that he's as fast as lightning and can predict your attacks and know where exactly you are (so no after image duplicates or decoys are going to work). Plus don't forget this guy to revive his own heart basically giving him false immortality. Don't forget the lightning speed in the mix[/QUOTE]
[quote name='Roronoa Zoro']Kizaru shoots a lazer through each of their heads and is lightspeed when travelling, not to mention he's a logia[/QUOTE]
[quote name='Roronoa Zoro']Marco can regen from any attack and he's not second in command for nothing[/QUOTE]
I'm beginning to wonder if any Bleach character could somehow hit a logia/mythical zoan user... What do you think?
[quote name='Roronoa Zoro']Kuma can simply nuke them with the Ursus Bomb or teleport them[/QUOTE]
Damn right, I can actually see Kuma solo the Bleachverse. Well, probably.
[quote name='Roronoa Zoro']Moria can steal shadows from right under people, this and if they were in the day time = victory. He was able to steal a whole island worth of shadows in less than a min. Not to mention that he can use dead corpses and insert shadows in them[/QUOTE]
Let's see... I have a huge tendency to be biased against Moria, since he is my least favourite character, and has shown to be pathetically weak. So I'm not gonna say my opinion on this since I would be so biased against him...
[quote name='Roronoa Zoro']Peron yea i admit that it was for the lulz but if you think about it, it's not as absurd as you think, those hollows of hers can render people's will to fight completely (this is assuming that she preped before and hid her real body in a safe location)[/QUOTE]
She's still get her @ss busted, even if she hides somewhere, that's what I think. Just by having a unique ability makes her special. Also, I would like to see how Ulquiorra (or Sasuke, for that matter) fares against her negative hollows, they probably would have no effect on him.
[quote name='Roronoa Zoro']I disagree with WB not being fast, he was able to keep up and catch Akainu and everyone that is above V.A. level in one piece knows soru and haki.[/QUOTE]
But do you think WB is in the super/hypersonic range?? And I'm not talking about his reaction time, but his speed. I can't actually remember a scene in which he moved extremely fast, although I would assume he can. One disadvantage for him though would be his illness and his old age.
[quote name='Roronoa Zoro']how exactly are they going to own Enel who could simply call an El Thor on them (from an island wide radius)? And if he brings in the Ark Maxim and create a Raigou, how on earth are they going to stop an island destroying attack? How are they even going to attack a Logia user who can turn intangible? None of their attacks are even going to hit Enel, not to mention that he's as fast as lightning and can predict your attacks and know where exactly you are (so no after image duplicates or decoys are going to work). Plus don't forget this guy to revive his own heart basically giving him false immortality. Don't forget the lightning speed in the mix[/QUOTE]
[quote name='Roronoa Zoro']Kizaru shoots a lazer through each of their heads and is lightspeed when travelling, not to mention he's a logia[/QUOTE]
[quote name='Roronoa Zoro']Marco can regen from any attack and he's not second in command for nothing[/QUOTE]
I'm beginning to wonder if any Bleach character could somehow hit a logia/mythical zoan user... What do you think?
[quote name='Roronoa Zoro']Kuma can simply nuke them with the Ursus Bomb or teleport them[/QUOTE]
Damn right, I can actually see Kuma solo the Bleachverse. Well, probably.
[quote name='Roronoa Zoro']Moria can steal shadows from right under people, this and if they were in the day time = victory. He was able to steal a whole island worth of shadows in less than a min. Not to mention that he can use dead corpses and insert shadows in them[/QUOTE]
Let's see... I have a huge tendency to be biased against Moria, since he is my least favourite character, and has shown to be pathetically weak. So I'm not gonna say my opinion on this since I would be so biased against him...
[quote name='Roronoa Zoro']Peron yea i admit that it was for the lulz but if you think about it, it's not as absurd as you think, those hollows of hers can render people's will to fight completely (this is assuming that she preped before and hid her real body in a safe location)[/QUOTE]
She's still get her @ss busted, even if she hides somewhere, that's what I think. Just by having a unique ability makes her special. Also, I would like to see how Ulquiorra (or Sasuke, for that matter) fares against her negative hollows, they probably would have no effect on him.
[quote name='sircuss']Indeed faster stretching time means nearer range, but it's unrelated to G2 itself.
[/QUOTE]
And why is that?
[quote name='sircuss']
Elephant Gun and Ogon Pistol+Ogon Botan shown otherwise.
[/QUOTE]
Elephant gun was no where close to instantaneous, and that seemed easy to dodge. Anbd Ougon Botan? Do you mean this?
There's no clear indication on the range of that attack.
[quote name='sircuss']
And that's what i mean too.
Please stretch rubberband to your arm. which one hurt more, stretched longer or nearer.[/QUOTE]
Since you are going for the rubberband scenario, you realize that the distance backwards you pull a rubber band is so much greater than the distance it shoots forward right?
[/QUOTE]
And why is that?
[quote name='sircuss']
Elephant Gun and Ogon Pistol+Ogon Botan shown otherwise.
[/QUOTE]
Elephant gun was no where close to instantaneous, and that seemed easy to dodge. Anbd Ougon Botan? Do you mean this?
There's no clear indication on the range of that attack.
[quote name='sircuss']
And that's what i mean too.
Please stretch rubberband to your arm. which one hurt more, stretched longer or nearer.[/QUOTE]
Since you are going for the rubberband scenario, you realize that the distance backwards you pull a rubber band is so much greater than the distance it shoots forward right?
[quote name='sircuss']Indeed faster stretching time means nearer range, but it's unrelated to G2 itself.
Elephant Gun and Ogon Pistol+Ogon Botan shown otherwise.
And that's what i mean too.
Please stretch rubberband to your arm. which one hurt more, stretched longer or nearer.[/QUOTE]
The longer it goes forward, the less momentum it will have, which will weaken how stronger it hits, if he has to reach too far forward, the power of the attack won't be as great.
Elephant Gun and Ogon Pistol+Ogon Botan shown otherwise.
And that's what i mean too.
Please stretch rubberband to your arm. which one hurt more, stretched longer or nearer.[/QUOTE]
The longer it goes forward, the less momentum it will have, which will weaken how stronger it hits, if he has to reach too far forward, the power of the attack won't be as great.
[quote name='Amulet Shade']The longer it goes forward, the less momentum it will have, which will weaken how stronger it hits, if he has to reach too far forward, the power of the attack won't be as great.[/QUOTE]
That's why for his gomu gomu no bazooka in G2 form he moves his body as well
[YOUTUBE]Ch5HnnTzZSY[/YOUTUBE]
It's at around 1:30
That's why for his gomu gomu no bazooka in G2 form he moves his body as well
[YOUTUBE]Ch5HnnTzZSY[/YOUTUBE]
It's at around 1:30